North Sea Jigsaw
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sargod
I do agree with your points, but as pointed out in my previous post......
SAR Divers do have a reputation of being egomaniacs etc, but my point is that some of their equipment and skills could be used in a diluted form giving a more adaptable crewman, .....without the ego?...the red tights do look nice!!..hello sailor!!
there are different ways to skin a cat, different units have different ways of doing things....change is a good thing...it doesn't hurt
Generally the only time a SAR diver is required to jump with full gear and breathing apparatus is when submerging to get a ditched fast jet jockey out of his cockpit.....however in certain situations, such as upturned vessels or small boats/ dinghys, the rest of his skills and kit such as wet suit, buoyancy aid, fins, mask and snorkel are definately of use. sometimes you cannot get close enough to a small dinghy or liferaft without causing more distress due to the downdraught of the aircraft.
there are different ways to skin a cat, different units have different ways of doing things....change is a good thing...it doesn't hurt
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On a slightly different tack, I've heard that the RAF/RN winchmen are now having to become state registered paramedics due to a change in the law. Apparently you need to be a registered Paramedic or an EMT, no half way house.
What are the guys at Bristows and Bond doing, or will they lose their medical capabilities?
What are the guys at Bristows and Bond doing, or will they lose their medical capabilities?
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I know that when i was speaking to Bond they intended their crewmen to be medically trained to a high standard and to be registered!! Don't know what Bristow are doing. Maybe Angelonawire can answer that one for us?????
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Spoke to a mate of mine who's on Sea Kings at Boulmer, and he reckons that the RAF guys have invested a lot of time and effort into Paramedic registration, after being advised by the Legal Beagles that to continue giving advanced medical treatment would become illegal. Quite what advanced is, I'm not sure. Still, they've employed some A+E consultant to run their training, and they all should all be registered by July.
I'm sure that if the military have done this, then the civvie guys will need to follow suit, as I'll bet the CG will want their crews to be able to offer the same treatments as their yellow hatted counterparts. Can't see the MCA accepting a loss in capability, or an illegal operation.
I'm sure that if the military have done this, then the civvie guys will need to follow suit, as I'll bet the CG will want their crews to be able to offer the same treatments as their yellow hatted counterparts. Can't see the MCA accepting a loss in capability, or an illegal operation.
There has been nothing much mentioned offshore except that the first a/c may be based on the Miller. New boats have been built in the far East to support the a/c. No dates as yet. It is all being kept very secret.
HF
HF
I spotted 2 yellow and black SAR-equipped L2s (BP's favourite Jigsaw colour scheme) on the flight line at Marignane recently. My guess is that they will be arriving in Aberdeen within the next month or so.
HC
HC
Did you see any BOS stickers on 225s on the production line? 
Ah, a nods as good as a wink to a blind bat!
I'm in MRS btw, hope we can all meet up with JJ this week. Enjoy the Sunday sun!
I'm in MRS btw, hope we can all meet up with JJ this week. Enjoy the Sunday sun!
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Any truth in the rumour that the Bond SAR aircraft will now be shuttling passengers around the rigs in addition to their SAR cover duties and the Shetland Isles air ambulance service?
What's next pleasure flights?
Nice one, glad they're taking SAR seriously.
What's next pleasure flights?
Nice one, glad they're taking SAR seriously.
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I think you're being rather unkind RTS.
I think survivors will be delighted to be offered a selection of hot and cold drinks and a bag of peanuts on the way up to the helicopter.
On a more serious note (if indeed the rumour is true), how do you mix crew-change shuttling and SAR standby in the same duty period?
Who is going to rescue the "shuttle" aircraft if it has a problem?
What happened to the concept of having a "dedicated" SAR aircraft offshore?
I think survivors will be delighted to be offered a selection of hot and cold drinks and a bag of peanuts on the way up to the helicopter.
On a more serious note (if indeed the rumour is true), how do you mix crew-change shuttling and SAR standby in the same duty period?
Who is going to rescue the "shuttle" aircraft if it has a problem?
What happened to the concept of having a "dedicated" SAR aircraft offshore?
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RTS
Aren't the crews going to be doing line shifts at Aberdeen as well?
How will they stay current mixing public transport and "SAR"?
I bet writing their ops manual is fun as they will be getting a lot of grief from the CAA
RI
Aren't the crews going to be doing line shifts at Aberdeen as well?
How will they stay current mixing public transport and "SAR"?
I bet writing their ops manual is fun as they will be getting a lot of grief from the CAA
RI
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212..What a pity you won't be flying a 225 in your new place of work! Don't forget to drop by for a beer in a neighbouring country when you feel thirsty and find it hard to get in that Sultanate!
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running in
Aren't the crews going to be doing line shifts at Aberdeen as well?
The Norwegians have been doing this for years using different aircraft and do not have a problem why should BOND.
Who would rescue the occupants if it were shuttling. Well who would rescue the occupants if they were training and had a problem.
or
What if 2 aircrat had a problem at the same time as someone fell off a rig.
There are still rescue craft onboard the standby boats or are we conveniently forgetting this just to make mischief.
There is more than one SAR aircraft and they are faster than the present slow old S61's.
JB
The Norwegians have been doing this for years using different aircraft and do not have a problem why should BOND.
Who would rescue the occupants if it were shuttling. Well who would rescue the occupants if they were training and had a problem.
or
What if 2 aircrat had a problem at the same time as someone fell off a rig.
There are still rescue craft onboard the standby boats or are we conveniently forgetting this just to make mischief.
There is more than one SAR aircraft and they are faster than the present slow old S61's.
JB
Last edited by jbrereton; 24th Jun 2005 at 08:01.
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Jbrereton
Yes, you’re right the Bond guys are doing line shifts at Aberdeen which will of course help to keep them current for line flying which is just as well really if the rumours are true.
Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!
Your point about who would rescue the SAR aircraft while training is interesting but flawed. You obviously are unaware of what jigsaw was originally about. The whole concept of jigsaw was to provide dedicated SAR offshore for crew change aircraft. Therefore the SAR aircraft would be there for passenger safety only. But if the SAR aircraft is doing shuttling then it’s not dedicated SAR and the passengers are not covered in the event of a ditching of the shuttle aircraft. This was not what the jigsaw concept was originally about. Nor was this how it was sold to the workforce.
Another point of Jigsaw was to do away with individual standby boats and have a larger regional vessel which may not be in the immediate vicinity if the SAR/shuttle aircraft ditches, again delaying any potential rescue.
So we’re left with the other aircraft but who’s to say it’s not doing the Shetland Island air ambulance service at the time. So the ‘old slow’ Coastguard S61’s you slander may be the only thing left.
A great idea has been cut and slashed by the accountants and the offshore workforce is being left with a cheap alternative.
And why is it whenever anyone raises a question about Jigsaw on this thread you accuse them of mischief. Surely this forum is here to discuss these sorts of issues or are you some sort of Bond spin doctor?
Yes, you’re right the Bond guys are doing line shifts at Aberdeen which will of course help to keep them current for line flying which is just as well really if the rumours are true.
Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!
Your point about who would rescue the SAR aircraft while training is interesting but flawed. You obviously are unaware of what jigsaw was originally about. The whole concept of jigsaw was to provide dedicated SAR offshore for crew change aircraft. Therefore the SAR aircraft would be there for passenger safety only. But if the SAR aircraft is doing shuttling then it’s not dedicated SAR and the passengers are not covered in the event of a ditching of the shuttle aircraft. This was not what the jigsaw concept was originally about. Nor was this how it was sold to the workforce.
Another point of Jigsaw was to do away with individual standby boats and have a larger regional vessel which may not be in the immediate vicinity if the SAR/shuttle aircraft ditches, again delaying any potential rescue.
So we’re left with the other aircraft but who’s to say it’s not doing the Shetland Island air ambulance service at the time. So the ‘old slow’ Coastguard S61’s you slander may be the only thing left.
A great idea has been cut and slashed by the accountants and the offshore workforce is being left with a cheap alternative.
And why is it whenever anyone raises a question about Jigsaw on this thread you accuse them of mischief. Surely this forum is here to discuss these sorts of issues or are you some sort of Bond spin doctor?
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When the "slow, old S61s" are doing other jobs there is no cover at all athe moment. I think an aircraft ditching will take precedence over a patient transfer - you show your ignorance of SAR planning and operations if you think any differently. The SAR captain has to prioritise tasks and that is his/her job. Lets give them a chance before writing off what could provide employment for a lot of aircrew, now and in the future. I wish them the best of luck and hope that the operation is a complete success!
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When the "slow, old S61s" are doing other jobs there is no cover at all athe moment. I think an aircraft ditching will take precedence over a patient transfer - you show your ignorance of SAR planning and operations if you think any differently.
You're really missing the point on this one. Jigsaw is about setting a new safety standard offshore. It is about removing the platforms own standby boat and replacing it with a regional support vessel and helicopter back up. If the back up is not there because it's shuttling passengers or half way to Aberdeen on air ambulance work then it is not meeting the concept it was sold on to the offshore workers. Of course any aircraft can be retasked but you can hardly take a pregnant women or a baby in an incubator out to a ditched aircraft. You have to take them to some sort of place of safety first which all takes time – something offshore workers in a ditched aircraft may not have.
The SAR captain has to prioritise tasks and that is his/her job.
Errr... no it isn't. It is the job of the CCC (Command and Control Centre). It is the CCC that will have the all the information available to them to prioritise tasking not a SAR driver who should be concentrating on the job in hand. Are you seriously suggesting that a SAR driver on task is going to collect and review information of another incident and then decide which one to do? Have you considered the possibility that he may have more important and more pressing issues to think about without taking on the combined role of the Coastguard and RCC as well?
You're really missing the point on this one. Jigsaw is about setting a new safety standard offshore. It is about removing the platforms own standby boat and replacing it with a regional support vessel and helicopter back up. If the back up is not there because it's shuttling passengers or half way to Aberdeen on air ambulance work then it is not meeting the concept it was sold on to the offshore workers. Of course any aircraft can be retasked but you can hardly take a pregnant women or a baby in an incubator out to a ditched aircraft. You have to take them to some sort of place of safety first which all takes time – something offshore workers in a ditched aircraft may not have.
The SAR captain has to prioritise tasks and that is his/her job.
Errr... no it isn't. It is the job of the CCC (Command and Control Centre). It is the CCC that will have the all the information available to them to prioritise tasking not a SAR driver who should be concentrating on the job in hand. Are you seriously suggesting that a SAR driver on task is going to collect and review information of another incident and then decide which one to do? Have you considered the possibility that he may have more important and more pressing issues to think about without taking on the combined role of the Coastguard and RCC as well?
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Night Watchman
Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!
This is not a true statement you are obviously ill informed.
Just how long do you consider, and who's to say you are correct, to be too long away from the job?
There is another SAR aircraft based at Sumburgh.
No I am not a BOND spin doctor, if so I would have a silly name to hide behind, but I would say you are possibly a Bristows pilot as if you do not know me you do not work for either CHC-Scotia or Bond? So that explains why you are so negative.
I was a member of the OILC union at the time that this was all being decided in the early days so I am hardly ill informed.
The original concept had been for search-and-rescue helicopters and platform-based fast-rescue craft. Regional support ships have been added after discussions with employees.
One new vessel will operate in the central North Sea, a second in the northern sector and a third in the area in between. Each ship is designed to carry two autonomous rescue and recovery craft and two fast-rescue craft. The four ships will replace six standby ships which have a total of 144 crew.
These new arrangements will provide substantially improved capability for offshore search, rescue and recovery over a
wider range of weather and sea state conditions.
I really do not see what your gripe is.
This is not a true statement you are obviously ill informed.
Just how long do you consider, and who's to say you are correct, to be too long away from the job?
There is another SAR aircraft based at Sumburgh.
No I am not a BOND spin doctor, if so I would have a silly name to hide behind, but I would say you are possibly a Bristows pilot as if you do not know me you do not work for either CHC-Scotia or Bond? So that explains why you are so negative.
I was a member of the OILC union at the time that this was all being decided in the early days so I am hardly ill informed.
The original concept had been for search-and-rescue helicopters and platform-based fast-rescue craft. Regional support ships have been added after discussions with employees.
One new vessel will operate in the central North Sea, a second in the northern sector and a third in the area in between. Each ship is designed to carry two autonomous rescue and recovery craft and two fast-rescue craft. The four ships will replace six standby ships which have a total of 144 crew.
These new arrangements will provide substantially improved capability for offshore search, rescue and recovery over a
wider range of weather and sea state conditions.
I really do not see what your gripe is.
Last edited by jbrereton; 25th Jun 2005 at 18:57.
Hi JB,
"Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!
This is not a true statement you are obviously ill informed"
My maths seems to prove it is true as far as rumours of the JIGSAW roster go.
2 weeks off after being offshore + 2 weeks in Aberdeen flying the line + 2 weeks off before going offshore again ( you need this as you do 28 days duty in 15 days offshore) this equals 6 weeks away from winching.
As for how current you need to be I foresee that this will be a problem for the JIGSAW crews as they, I presume, will only get the minimum required training and hardly any real time on SAROPS.
HF
"Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!
This is not a true statement you are obviously ill informed"
My maths seems to prove it is true as far as rumours of the JIGSAW roster go.
2 weeks off after being offshore + 2 weeks in Aberdeen flying the line + 2 weeks off before going offshore again ( you need this as you do 28 days duty in 15 days offshore) this equals 6 weeks away from winching.
As for how current you need to be I foresee that this will be a problem for the JIGSAW crews as they, I presume, will only get the minimum required training and hardly any real time on SAROPS.
HF