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North Sea Jigsaw

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North Sea Jigsaw

Old 7th May 2005, 07:34
  #321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Away with the Fairies
Posts: 93
Spoke to a mate of mine who's on Sea Kings at Boulmer, and he reckons that the RAF guys have invested a lot of time and effort into Paramedic registration, after being advised by the Legal Beagles that to continue giving advanced medical treatment would become illegal. Quite what advanced is, I'm not sure. Still, they've employed some A+E consultant to run their training, and they all should all be registered by July.

I'm sure that if the military have done this, then the civvie guys will need to follow suit, as I'll bet the CG will want their crews to be able to offer the same treatments as their yellow hatted counterparts. Can't see the MCA accepting a loss in capability, or an illegal operation.
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Old 8th Jun 2005, 22:03
  #322 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7
Been away for a bit. What is the latest on JIGSAW. When is it due to start and it what form?

EFATO
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Old 10th Jun 2005, 00:10
  #323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 687
There has been nothing much mentioned offshore except that the first a/c may be based on the Miller. New boats have been built in the far East to support the a/c. No dates as yet. It is all being kept very secret.

HF
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Old 10th Jun 2005, 22:00
  #324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 64
Posts: 2,024
I spotted 2 yellow and black SAR-equipped L2s (BP's favourite Jigsaw colour scheme) on the flight line at Marignane recently. My guess is that they will be arriving in Aberdeen within the next month or so.

HC
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Old 11th Jun 2005, 18:53
  #325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Did you see any BOS stickers on 225s on the production line?
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Old 12th Jun 2005, 13:14
  #326 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen
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No, and I don't think they have actually ordered any yet. There certainly haven't been any such announcements.
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Old 12th Jun 2005, 14:24
  #327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 53
Posts: 4,698
Ah, a nods as good as a wink to a blind bat!

I'm in MRS btw, hope we can all meet up with JJ this week. Enjoy the Sunday sun!
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Old 22nd Jun 2005, 18:34
  #328 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Sea
Posts: 33
Any truth in the rumour that the Bond SAR aircraft will now be shuttling passengers around the rigs in addition to their SAR cover duties and the Shetland Isles air ambulance service?

What's next pleasure flights?

Nice one, glad they're taking SAR seriously.

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Old 22nd Jun 2005, 18:46
  #329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 20
I think you're being rather unkind RTS.

I think survivors will be delighted to be offered a selection of hot and cold drinks and a bag of peanuts on the way up to the helicopter.

On a more serious note (if indeed the rumour is true), how do you mix crew-change shuttling and SAR standby in the same duty period?

Who is going to rescue the "shuttle" aircraft if it has a problem?

What happened to the concept of having a "dedicated" SAR aircraft offshore?

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Old 23rd Jun 2005, 11:24
  #330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 109
RTS

Aren't the crews going to be doing line shifts at Aberdeen as well?

How will they stay current mixing public transport and "SAR"?

I bet writing their ops manual is fun as they will be getting a lot of grief from the CAA

RI
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Old 23rd Jun 2005, 15:09
  #331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: South East Asia
Posts: 92
212..What a pity you won't be flying a 225 in your new place of work! Don't forget to drop by for a beer in a neighbouring country when you feel thirsty and find it hard to get in that Sultanate!
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Old 23rd Jun 2005, 20:48
  #332 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 83
running in

Aren't the crews going to be doing line shifts at Aberdeen as well?

The Norwegians have been doing this for years using different aircraft and do not have a problem why should BOND.

Who would rescue the occupants if it were shuttling. Well who would rescue the occupants if they were training and had a problem.
or
What if 2 aircrat had a problem at the same time as someone fell off a rig.

There are still rescue craft onboard the standby boats or are we conveniently forgetting this just to make mischief.

There is more than one SAR aircraft and they are faster than the present slow old S61's.

JB

Last edited by jbrereton; 24th Jun 2005 at 08:01.
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Old 24th Jun 2005, 14:20
  #333 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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Jbrereton

Yes, you’re right the Bond guys are doing line shifts at Aberdeen which will of course help to keep them current for line flying which is just as well really if the rumours are true.

Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!

Your point about who would rescue the SAR aircraft while training is interesting but flawed. You obviously are unaware of what jigsaw was originally about. The whole concept of jigsaw was to provide dedicated SAR offshore for crew change aircraft. Therefore the SAR aircraft would be there for passenger safety only. But if the SAR aircraft is doing shuttling then it’s not dedicated SAR and the passengers are not covered in the event of a ditching of the shuttle aircraft. This was not what the jigsaw concept was originally about. Nor was this how it was sold to the workforce.

Another point of Jigsaw was to do away with individual standby boats and have a larger regional vessel which may not be in the immediate vicinity if the SAR/shuttle aircraft ditches, again delaying any potential rescue.

So we’re left with the other aircraft but who’s to say it’s not doing the Shetland Island air ambulance service at the time. So the ‘old slow’ Coastguard S61’s you slander may be the only thing left.

A great idea has been cut and slashed by the accountants and the offshore workforce is being left with a cheap alternative.

And why is it whenever anyone raises a question about Jigsaw on this thread you accuse them of mischief. Surely this forum is here to discuss these sorts of issues or are you some sort of Bond spin doctor?
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Old 24th Jun 2005, 14:56
  #334 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
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When the "slow, old S61s" are doing other jobs there is no cover at all athe moment. I think an aircraft ditching will take precedence over a patient transfer - you show your ignorance of SAR planning and operations if you think any differently. The SAR captain has to prioritise tasks and that is his/her job. Lets give them a chance before writing off what could provide employment for a lot of aircrew, now and in the future. I wish them the best of luck and hope that the operation is a complete success!
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Old 24th Jun 2005, 21:15
  #335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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When the "slow, old S61s" are doing other jobs there is no cover at all athe moment. I think an aircraft ditching will take precedence over a patient transfer - you show your ignorance of SAR planning and operations if you think any differently.

You're really missing the point on this one. Jigsaw is about setting a new safety standard offshore. It is about removing the platforms own standby boat and replacing it with a regional support vessel and helicopter back up. If the back up is not there because it's shuttling passengers or half way to Aberdeen on air ambulance work then it is not meeting the concept it was sold on to the offshore workers. Of course any aircraft can be retasked but you can hardly take a pregnant women or a baby in an incubator out to a ditched aircraft. You have to take them to some sort of place of safety first which all takes time – something offshore workers in a ditched aircraft may not have.

The SAR captain has to prioritise tasks and that is his/her job.

Errr... no it isn't. It is the job of the CCC (Command and Control Centre). It is the CCC that will have the all the information available to them to prioritise tasking not a SAR driver who should be concentrating on the job in hand. Are you seriously suggesting that a SAR driver on task is going to collect and review information of another incident and then decide which one to do? Have you considered the possibility that he may have more important and more pressing issues to think about without taking on the combined role of the Coastguard and RCC as well?
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Old 25th Jun 2005, 17:45
  #336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
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Night Watchman

Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!

This is not a true statement you are obviously ill informed.

Just how long do you consider, and who's to say you are correct, to be too long away from the job?

There is another SAR aircraft based at Sumburgh.

No I am not a BOND spin doctor, if so I would have a silly name to hide behind, but I would say you are possibly a Bristows pilot as if you do not know me you do not work for either CHC-Scotia or Bond? So that explains why you are so negative.

I was a member of the OILC union at the time that this was all being decided in the early days so I am hardly ill informed.

The original concept had been for search-and-rescue helicopters and platform-based fast-rescue craft. Regional support ships have been added after discussions with employees.

One new vessel will operate in the central North Sea, a second in the northern sector and a third in the area in between. Each ship is designed to carry two autonomous rescue and recovery craft and two fast-rescue craft. The four ships will replace six standby ships which have a total of 144 crew.

These new arrangements will provide substantially improved capability for offshore search, rescue and recovery over a
wider range of weather and sea state conditions.

I really do not see what your gripe is.

Last edited by jbrereton; 25th Jun 2005 at 18:57.
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Old 25th Jun 2005, 20:31
  #337 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 687
Hi JB,

"Unfortunately, it means that they can go 6 weeks without winch training before going back offshore to do SAR and potentially go straight into a rescue situation. Glad I’m not going down the wire!

This is not a true statement you are obviously ill informed"

My maths seems to prove it is true as far as rumours of the JIGSAW roster go.

2 weeks off after being offshore + 2 weeks in Aberdeen flying the line + 2 weeks off before going offshore again ( you need this as you do 28 days duty in 15 days offshore) this equals 6 weeks away from winching.

As for how current you need to be I foresee that this will be a problem for the JIGSAW crews as they, I presume, will only get the minimum required training and hardly any real time on SAROPS.

HF
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Old 26th Jun 2005, 15:51
  #338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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jbrereton

This is not a true statement you are obviously ill informed.

Hummingfrog has answered that one.

No I am not a BOND spin doctor, if so I would have a silly name to hide behind, but I would say you are possibly a Bristows pilot as if you do not know me you do not work for either CHC-Scotia or Bond? So that explains why you are so negative.

Are you saying that you know everyone who currently works for CHC and Bond and their PPRuNe nicknames? Wow, that’s some claim, you must get loads of Christmas cards. Do you really think Bristow pilots are negative?

But on a serious note, some of us using this forum can not be as open as you are. We have to remain anonymous because it is too easy to be labeled as ‘trouble’ by the companies we work for and subsequently side lined. This is where forums such as PPRuNe are so valuable because it allows us to express our opinions without fear of reprisals. If we couldn’t this would be a very boring thread with very guarded postings. Instead we are getting a good open debate over an issue which affects every pilot flying the North Sea.

I was a member of the OILC union at the time that this was all being decided in the early days so I am hardly ill informed.

Well, if you were a member of OILC are you happy now that the ‘dedicated’ SAR aircraft you were promised could be shuttling and used for 3rd party work? Will that happen after discussions with the employees or just go ahead anyway?

One new vessel will operate in the central North Sea, a second in the northern sector and a third in the area in between. The four ships will replace six standby ships which have a total of 144 crew.

You mention the location of three ships and then refer to them as ‘four ships’. Where does the other one come in or is this more spin?

This is about safety offshore and as a current offshore driver I consider myself one of the offshore employees it affects. The original Jigsaw concept appears to have been watered down into a cheap wishy washy version.

If the SAR aircraft are going to be used for public transport inter rig shuttling then how long will it be before they will be flying to Aberdeen with passengers? How long before the regional support vessels will be carrying freight inter rig or elsewhere? Would this be acceptable to you as well?

I support Jigsaw in its original format. What I see now is not an improvement in safety but a reduction. Dedicated SAR seems to have become semi SAR. How long will it be before the SAR aspect of it becomes hardly anything at all?

Why, with oil prices as high as they are can’t we have a decent safety system offshore and why can’t we voice our concerns?

So my answer is this - let’s have Jigsaw offshore but let’s do it properly. In the long term it could affect all of us.
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 08:44
  #339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: holland
Posts: 21
Please can somebody help me out here.

Where does SAR stands for:

Shuttle and Rescue or Search and Rescue???

Lets be professional and provide a good, quality service to the offshore workers, which IS on standby at all times and not used for all kind of different secundairy taskings. This is what JIGSAW is about, irrespective of the operator.

I know it will be boring and in the short term it doesn't seem to be cost effective, but (hopefully not!) when that day comes.....

Night Dipper
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Old 27th Jun 2005, 12:31
  #340 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 83
SAR

One assumes that BP and the Oil unions have been in on the Risk Assessment of this whole JIGSAW setup. If they are happy with the outcome then so should you be as they are the ones it affects the most.

I believe the turnaround for the SAR crews offshore will be one week offshore, one week onshore and one week off or mix up as you will. Again one would assume that the powers that be realise that a pilot who has been away for a period of time would need to go with a current pilot to get refreshed.

I do not know anything about the shuttling plans at present and so cannot comment, but give me time, I do know alot of people.

As regard the blurb on locations and the fourth ship, I do not know as I obtained that from the BP web page and I am asking myself the same question but again give me time and I will find out.

Yes I do get alot of Christmas cards but do not always reply so do not bother sending one.

You are all on about shuttling and what if it has to ditch. Well there are fast rescue craft on the rigs and Standby boats. The aircraft has floats and dinghies. If the aircraft had a problem doing a shuttle then it would have a problem on a rescue mission.

What if while shuttling there were a call out.
I would imagine the shuttling if it is taking place would be over short distances and could drop off any passengers very quickly, quicker in fact than starting up from scratch.

But please carry on as I do like a good discussion as those that have flown with me know.
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