North Sea Jigsaw
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chopperman
I too would like to stick in my ten pennith worth, firstly please do not confuse the ablities of military and coastguard SAR crews, military crewman are medically and physically fit, they are fully medically trained and maintain their currency in this, they are trained in met, air traffic control, navigation and highly aware of flight safety practices, they have comprehensive knowledge of maps and charts, aviation publications and instructional techniques. most of them have usually served in various conflicts overseas which prepares them for the most challenging conditions imaginable. they constantly practice diver drops,cliff winching, confined area landings, underslung loadlifting, navex and pinex this is all on top of the standard decks and drums which the coastguard think is all that is required for SAR, they are constantly overseen by standards to ensure they all sing from the same songsheet and their medical skills are constantly evaluted and kept up to date.
Their counterparts in the coastguard outfits however are either retired military crews intheir mid to late fifties, lots of experience but their physical ability and medical fitness are rather questionable. or they have been trained by bristows from rampies or public transport winchmen/cabin crew, their training comprises of on the job winch training with little or no met, air traffic or nav skills, apparently some of them have done a dicky cours at RAF valley to tick a box, again these guys are not required to pass any fitness or medical exams to get a job, their medical training is by no means as comprehensive as the military yet they claim to have paramedic status.
I am a firm believer that the calibre of people being hired by Bond are far in excess of those employed by bristow. the winchops are aparently all ex mil sar crewmen with age on their side and the winchmen come from highly proffessional backrounds such as hems paramedics and divers etc, if one or two come from rampies or a painter and decorator then i am sure they must have shown potential to pass the strict criteria demanded by bond.
I think bristow and chc need to take a leaf from bonds book!!
personally if I fancied leaving the military then I am quite positive which outfit I'd rather work for.
and as a survivor in the north sea I think I'd rather have a physically fit young paramedic fish me out rather than a grandpa with his colostomy bag getting in the way!
Their counterparts in the coastguard outfits however are either retired military crews intheir mid to late fifties, lots of experience but their physical ability and medical fitness are rather questionable. or they have been trained by bristows from rampies or public transport winchmen/cabin crew, their training comprises of on the job winch training with little or no met, air traffic or nav skills, apparently some of them have done a dicky cours at RAF valley to tick a box, again these guys are not required to pass any fitness or medical exams to get a job, their medical training is by no means as comprehensive as the military yet they claim to have paramedic status.
I am a firm believer that the calibre of people being hired by Bond are far in excess of those employed by bristow. the winchops are aparently all ex mil sar crewmen with age on their side and the winchmen come from highly proffessional backrounds such as hems paramedics and divers etc, if one or two come from rampies or a painter and decorator then i am sure they must have shown potential to pass the strict criteria demanded by bond.
I think bristow and chc need to take a leaf from bonds book!!
personally if I fancied leaving the military then I am quite positive which outfit I'd rather work for.
and as a survivor in the north sea I think I'd rather have a physically fit young paramedic fish me out rather than a grandpa with his colostomy bag getting in the way!
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Luvverboy,
Didn't think I had compared the abilities of Military or Coastguard SAR crews. What I did point out was the original objective of Jigsaw i.e. to replace/supplement the offshore standby boats on BP offshore installations. The safety implications of the loss of these vessels is still being questioned by many who are employed in the North Sea environment, however, that's another story for another time.
I feel sure that Bond will endeavour to hire crews of a suitable competency.
If you should ever consider leaving the military, do your researches very thoroughly before you decide which operator to work for as, believe me, none of them are what they first seem.
Happy SARing and here's hoping you never have to fish me out of the water.
Chopperman
By the way, how do I tell the difference between Military and Coastguard SAR crews? Is it that the Military wear their underpants outside their survival suits? Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
Didn't think I had compared the abilities of Military or Coastguard SAR crews. What I did point out was the original objective of Jigsaw i.e. to replace/supplement the offshore standby boats on BP offshore installations. The safety implications of the loss of these vessels is still being questioned by many who are employed in the North Sea environment, however, that's another story for another time.
I feel sure that Bond will endeavour to hire crews of a suitable competency.
If you should ever consider leaving the military, do your researches very thoroughly before you decide which operator to work for as, believe me, none of them are what they first seem.
Happy SARing and here's hoping you never have to fish me out of the water.
Chopperman
By the way, how do I tell the difference between Military and Coastguard SAR crews? Is it that the Military wear their underpants outside their survival suits? Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
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what are shell going to do in 3-4 years when god's waiting room at bristow has moved on a few years closer to the pearly gates..the will have to scour the british legion to get a few more younsters to replace the old boys
they are already extending a lot of their guys beyond 60 !!!!!
they are already extending a lot of their guys beyond 60 !!!!!
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I can't fail to notice that after a few home truth's have surfaced you can now hear a pin drop on this thread! Agree with a lot that luvverboy has to say. To people like Night Watchman i say you shouldn't throw stones in glass houses!!!!!!!!
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luvverboy
I do not fly for the MCA, but as an informed observer I think you are being very harsh and you are certainly ill informed. MCA crewmen may be older (and wiser) but there again they do not have to run around in gas masks and do war like things. Serving overseas in a war may be jolly good, but is it relevant ? Also I think if you check your facts you will find the level of training is very similar between the MCA and the Services. True the MCA do not do diver drops, but there again neither do the RAF. As far as training goes, the MCA crews probably do more training each month (including wets, cliffs and lots of decks) than service crews as their aircraft are serviceable. You missed FLIR operator off your list of clever things a navy crewman can do- have the navy joined the modern world and fitted FLIR to their SAR Sea Kings yet?
In my experience from the RAF the best crewmen (both SH and SAR) were usually the old Master Aircrew who were past the first flush of youth but had years of experience to fall back on. It is similar people who form the backbone of the MCA crews, and as we regularly see on TV do an excellent job.
Do you think the MCA would accept winch ops trained at "a dicky cours at RAF valley"?
Can you quote an example of when the MCA have failed in a rescue due to old crewmen? Thought not!
RI
I do not fly for the MCA, but as an informed observer I think you are being very harsh and you are certainly ill informed. MCA crewmen may be older (and wiser) but there again they do not have to run around in gas masks and do war like things. Serving overseas in a war may be jolly good, but is it relevant ? Also I think if you check your facts you will find the level of training is very similar between the MCA and the Services. True the MCA do not do diver drops, but there again neither do the RAF. As far as training goes, the MCA crews probably do more training each month (including wets, cliffs and lots of decks) than service crews as their aircraft are serviceable. You missed FLIR operator off your list of clever things a navy crewman can do- have the navy joined the modern world and fitted FLIR to their SAR Sea Kings yet?
In my experience from the RAF the best crewmen (both SH and SAR) were usually the old Master Aircrew who were past the first flush of youth but had years of experience to fall back on. It is similar people who form the backbone of the MCA crews, and as we regularly see on TV do an excellent job.
Do you think the MCA would accept winch ops trained at "a dicky cours at RAF valley"?
Can you quote an example of when the MCA have failed in a rescue due to old crewmen? Thought not!
RI
Ah, Luvverboy.....you do underestimate old age and treachery! Some of these dinosaurs you are talking about have more time peeing out of a helicopter than you youngun's have flying in them.
Age takes a toll for sure, but it also allows for experience....something the young do not have by mere lack of exposure. The happy compromise might be to have a young fire breathing stud on the dumb end of the line....and the old dog up above that way the best attributes of both can be used.
You can talk about all the qualifications you have chalked up....kind of like merit badges for scouts....I suggest those badges one has pinned to the front of the tunic carry a bit more weight.
The real shame in life is that youth is wasted on the young.
Age takes a toll for sure, but it also allows for experience....something the young do not have by mere lack of exposure. The happy compromise might be to have a young fire breathing stud on the dumb end of the line....and the old dog up above that way the best attributes of both can be used.
You can talk about all the qualifications you have chalked up....kind of like merit badges for scouts....I suggest those badges one has pinned to the front of the tunic carry a bit more weight.
The real shame in life is that youth is wasted on the young.
"what are shell going to do in 3-4 years when god's waiting room at bristow has moved on a few years closer to the pearly gates..the will have to scour the british legion to get a few more younsters to replace the old boys
they are already extending a lot of their guys beyond 60 !!!!!"
How does this relate to Jigsaw???
they are already extending a lot of their guys beyond 60 !!!!!"
How does this relate to Jigsaw???
Gawd! To think I escaped alive from that waiting room!
212man....next time you all gather for tea....add up the total accident free flying hours amongst that bunch of geriatrics and post the results here. I was the baby with just shy of 10,000 hours....our photographer had over 17,000, the village chief about the same, dare say the vertically challenged one that looks like Oscar the cookie monster had about the same.....probably close on to 100,000 hours safe flying at any given tea break.
212man....next time you all gather for tea....add up the total accident free flying hours amongst that bunch of geriatrics and post the results here. I was the baby with just shy of 10,000 hours....our photographer had over 17,000, the village chief about the same, dare say the vertically challenged one that looks like Oscar the cookie monster had about the same.....probably close on to 100,000 hours safe flying at any given tea break.
SASless,
I agree; I just don't see the relevance to BP, Jigsaw or Bond!
I agree; I just don't see the relevance to BP, Jigsaw or Bond!
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running in
I think you've been watching too much danger on the beach, those programmes are made up of outtakes of their shift, to make it a little more exciting for the audience, they have edited out them being spoonfed liquidised meals between jobs, at portland the old boys can only manage 12hr shifts before requiring a blood transfusion
you are obviously at the end of your time in the crabs therefore are quite supportive of the bristow help the aged fund as you would probably like a job to see you through to the pearly gates.
as for flir, I am sure the RAF have S.O.Ps for using it, but who has trained the MCA boys in search patterns etc?
the MCA do accept winch...men after a tiddly course at valley or winchops with a year of mil SAR background
"Can you quote an example of when the MCA have failed in a rescue due to old crewmen? Thought not!"......
well I know for a fact.......this is for 212man also, ref relevance to jigsaw.....Bristow used selected crewmen to carry out the trials (which involved recovering 21 survivors out of the sea)..the selected crewmen were handpicked due them being the only ten percent of company crewmen who were physically capable. I would like to see the remaining geriatrics carry out that same evolution
and SASless my point exactly u probably do spend more time peeing out of the cab than I would it is commonly known as incontinence
you are obviously at the end of your time in the crabs therefore are quite supportive of the bristow help the aged fund as you would probably like a job to see you through to the pearly gates.
as for flir, I am sure the RAF have S.O.Ps for using it, but who has trained the MCA boys in search patterns etc?
the MCA do accept winch...men after a tiddly course at valley or winchops with a year of mil SAR background
"Can you quote an example of when the MCA have failed in a rescue due to old crewmen? Thought not!"......
well I know for a fact.......this is for 212man also, ref relevance to jigsaw.....Bristow used selected crewmen to carry out the trials (which involved recovering 21 survivors out of the sea)..the selected crewmen were handpicked due them being the only ten percent of company crewmen who were physically capable. I would like to see the remaining geriatrics carry out that same evolution
and SASless my point exactly u probably do spend more time peeing out of the cab than I would it is commonly known as incontinence
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luvverboy
I would just like to say that there are a few youngsters in Bristow, but I think the point we are dicussing is whether or not the guys hired for bond will be up for the job, not to argue who can pee out of the cab the most!!!....
everyone does a good job the RAF,the NAVY and the MCA..I'm sure you can welcome another outfit into the big SAR family
how about we stop arguing about it, and at least give them a fair crack at the whip..jealousy is an ugly thing
everyone does a good job the RAF,the NAVY and the MCA..I'm sure you can welcome another outfit into the big SAR family
how about we stop arguing about it, and at least give them a fair crack at the whip..jealousy is an ugly thing
luvverboy,
"but who has trained the MCA boys in search patterns etc?"
Dunno, but I guess they have been practising ever since they got the Manston contract in the early '70s with Whirlwinds.
So how do Shell figure again......?
"but who has trained the MCA boys in search patterns etc?"
Dunno, but I guess they have been practising ever since they got the Manston contract in the early '70s with Whirlwinds.
So how do Shell figure again......?
Luvverboy,
Perhaps your eyes deceive you....I referred to the old dino's in the rear of the bus not myself....when I suggested they had a bit more time at this game than some you hold up as being superior. By the way...do the Brits use the Rescue Swimmer as part of the crew or are they merely rope riders?
Now before the screaming starts...I hold my hat off for the SAR crews of all sorts....they just might be looking down at me some cold night....and I would look up to them then just as I do now.
Perhaps your eyes deceive you....I referred to the old dino's in the rear of the bus not myself....when I suggested they had a bit more time at this game than some you hold up as being superior. By the way...do the Brits use the Rescue Swimmer as part of the crew or are they merely rope riders?
Now before the screaming starts...I hold my hat off for the SAR crews of all sorts....they just might be looking down at me some cold night....and I would look up to them then just as I do now.
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This Bond "jigsaw" crack sounds like exiting stuff. I also thought about the age subject of our local flying hero's though. Do these companies have a habit of recruiting only "experienced aircrew" from the military or do guys looking for a career in the business have a look in too?
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All this so called "banter" is somewhat amusing but what is actually happening now on this subject. Do we actually know who the bond guys are, or is this rumours network just living up to its name-sake?
P.S. Any jobs left!?
P.S. Any jobs left!?