Agusta A109
Yeah, I know. But this weird limitations configuration doesn’t work on the planning part. You cannot plan your MCP TQ for something the way Agusta wants in the flight manual.
Last edited by Phoinix; 16th Oct 2017 at 19:37.
So, any Agusta 109 drivers out there to clear the topic?
How to plan a flight with TQ margin if the TQ doesn't have the MCP range at all, but the charts for T/O and MCP power exist (MCP for TOT and N1 limit only)?
Like one pilot said: "we never have power related issues". But I don't buy that, every helicopter has power issues that we need to plan for.
How to plan a flight with TQ margin if the TQ doesn't have the MCP range at all, but the charts for T/O and MCP power exist (MCP for TOT and N1 limit only)?
Like one pilot said: "we never have power related issues". But I don't buy that, every helicopter has power issues that we need to plan for.
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Surely if you want to ensure a power margin, you calculate the max all up mass for hover OGE in the given conditions, and then you reduce the mass by whatever margin you require. eg, if you want a 5% thrust margin at 3000kg, you will ensure your mass is 150kg below the max.
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Maybe you are not explaining your point clearly enough? Clearly Agusta will run out of power like any machine. The Hover OGE graph tells you when that will be. It just doesnt tell you whether the limiting factor will be Tq N1 or TOT. Does that matter? Most more modern aircraft provide you with a "PI" or first limit indicator which tells you when you get to the limit on any of the parameters. It doesnt make much difference to me which one it is.
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The Agusta 109 rotor brake control is a badly thought out design, certainly in the way that it's not pilot proof, as this one discovered.
As the report states, the handle on the left side of the overhead panel is fairly small and is partly hidden by the ECLs. The latter are normally left in the "Flight" position at all times (engines are started and stopped using the controls on the centre console) so there is no need for putting one's hand up to move them - which might be a further prompt to notice where the brake handle is.
The utility hydraulic pressure for the rotor brake tends to bleed away after shutdown, as does that of the parking brakes (it's important to chock a 109 if you want it to be where you parked it on a slope when you return).
If there's no utility pressure the rotors will begin to turn quite normally on start up despite the brake handle still being in the "ON" position. However, as the rotors begin to turn, the hydraulic pump re-pressurises the utility system and the brake comes on again all by itself, harder and harder... say no more!
I never leave the rotor brake handle "ON" for this reason. I know of one pilot some years ago who started his first A109 job in the morning, inadvertently left the rotor brake on for a subsequent startup and was looking for another job by the end of the afternoon.
As the report states, the handle on the left side of the overhead panel is fairly small and is partly hidden by the ECLs. The latter are normally left in the "Flight" position at all times (engines are started and stopped using the controls on the centre console) so there is no need for putting one's hand up to move them - which might be a further prompt to notice where the brake handle is.
The utility hydraulic pressure for the rotor brake tends to bleed away after shutdown, as does that of the parking brakes (it's important to chock a 109 if you want it to be where you parked it on a slope when you return).
If there's no utility pressure the rotors will begin to turn quite normally on start up despite the brake handle still being in the "ON" position. However, as the rotors begin to turn, the hydraulic pump re-pressurises the utility system and the brake comes on again all by itself, harder and harder... say no more!
I never leave the rotor brake handle "ON" for this reason. I know of one pilot some years ago who started his first A109 job in the morning, inadvertently left the rotor brake on for a subsequent startup and was looking for another job by the end of the afternoon.
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I was a little surprised to see that flying SP in the 109 a checklist is not used. There may be a good reason for that, SPIFRs might be able to tell me. As it is, I barely fasten my seatbelt without referring to the checklist (the rotor brake is on it, and much easier to see in the a/c I’m training on).
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"The AW109SP is designed to be flown by a single pilot and the checks are generally performed from memory without reference to a written checklist."
I think this phrase is an unhelpful generalisation. The checks are clearly listed in the RFM. When conducting training on the factory course, every student will use a checklist. If an operator chooses to dispense with checklists, then it is their own lookout, as it opens them up to exactly this sort of error. I would like to know on what evidence the AAIB has decided this is the norm?
I think this phrase is an unhelpful generalisation. The checks are clearly listed in the RFM. When conducting training on the factory course, every student will use a checklist. If an operator chooses to dispense with checklists, then it is their own lookout, as it opens them up to exactly this sort of error. I would like to know on what evidence the AAIB has decided this is the norm?
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In forty years of aviation, I've never had the privilege of a factory course, on any type I've flown.
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I was a little surprised to see that flying SP in the 109 a checklist is not used
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After an incident where someone started with the rotor brake on, 
we adopted the procedure where if the brake was left on after shutdown, then a cover was put on the cyclic.
we adopted the procedure where if the brake was left on after shutdown, then a cover was put on the cyclic.
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Nor a 44, as it has a starter motor interlock on the rotor brake. Not sure about the 66, but I'd guess it's the same. It's always a bit embarrassing when you make that mistake in the 44, but thankfully that's all it is.
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but, can anyone give me the OEI fuel burn in the cruise for a A109E P&W 206C engines. I've looked at the RFM and can find nothing.
The new fuel requirements thing here is wanting me to know what fuel I'll need if I have a single engine failure at critical point in a flight to make it to my destination or an alternate plus 15 minutes dicking around above the aerodrome then landing. Why a VFR aircraft is going to hang around for 15 minutes before I land I don't know. Typical of the rubbish produced from Canberra.
The new fuel requirements thing here is wanting me to know what fuel I'll need if I have a single engine failure at critical point in a flight to make it to my destination or an alternate plus 15 minutes dicking around above the aerodrome then landing. Why a VFR aircraft is going to hang around for 15 minutes before I land I don't know. Typical of the rubbish produced from Canberra.
But it just proves the point why most commercial operators would always use checklists.