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Helicopter aerodynamics CD Rom?

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Helicopter aerodynamics CD Rom?

Old 22nd Aug 2004, 19:12
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Question Cd Rom?

Does anyone know of a graphics-rich CD ROM covering helicopter aerodynamics? I would really like to "see" examples of blades flapping to equality etc. as my brain works better that way...

Ta.
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Old 23rd Aug 2004, 00:22
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MPD

i'm with you - i am certainly a visually dependant learner; "a picture tells a thousand words" etc.

i am a student CPL(H) pilot & have been working on producing some 3d animations of several topics, i am currently studying Aerodynamics & am making a list (quite extensive now ) of all the items that i need to animate. I am still learning the tools to produce this too, so the process is doubly painful for me.

i had intended to produce my own theory application incorporating all of these animations, but as a student pilot i am nowhere near the level i would need to be in order to produce such technical detail (with any authority ) & would need to source an existing content from a more appropriate (qualified) source.

I have been using my existing books etc. as references, & I hope to be able to produce enough animations that i could approach some of these authors with the intent to produce an electronic format of their texts, including my animations.

I may be behind the eight-ball though as i noticed the other day in (i think it was) the Australia AVIATION magazine an advert for CD-ROM based theory

I have not seen a copy of it, nor know of anyone who has, so i am unsure of the format of the content & whether or not they have utilised graphical animations etc. i can only assume that they would have.

in any case i am continuing my personal project of animating all the little things i can, so that i can at least incorporate them into pre-flight briefings, where such aerodynamics focused topics might need to be revised.

I was considering using this forum as a testbed for some of the content (once completed) to tap the brains of the mentors out there who are the prime candidates for critizing any visualisations that i interpret into an animation.
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Old 23rd Aug 2004, 08:39
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gadgetguru - "Good on ya" I believe is the correct expression! Shame you have not got it finished, approved and in the shops cos i could sure do with a copy...

Looks like I am in for more fun filled evenings with Norman Bailey...

Ta
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Old 26th Aug 2004, 09:51
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MPD

is there anything in particular that you were hoping to find?

I have an ever growing list of items for the 'to-do' pile, that will eventually cover all items that are difficult to explain &/or illustrate, but might animate very well.

i have identified a few items that will probably take priority, that might be able to find their way into concurrent projects

but again all of this has to wait until my studies are complete.

I'd be interested to know what the instructor (H) community finds the most laborious to explain to students.

I am happy to accept any recommendations that they feel are relevant in this regard.
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Old 26th Aug 2004, 16:18
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shall we join forces?

There must be a bunch of us thinking about improving the fund of in-depth maneuvers/flight descriptions. I cannot see why there is such a shortage of standardized maneuvers parameters, even the FAA mentions Tasks for the PTS that are nowhere laid out in sufficient detail to prevent various different regional interpretations of how the maneuver is to be done. Specific confusional instances: steep approach, max perf TO, full-down auto, coping with POH's that have criminally insufficient performance data (notably R22).

Would you, MPD and gadget, be interested in collaborating on a priority-list of principles needing clarification/standardization/animation, which we could circulate to others of the same mind set? My thought is that there's so little profit in generating advanced educational products for the microscopic helicopter-pilot market that we might as well admit this is a labor of love . . .

Dave
ATP/CFII ASMELGH
Chief Flt Instr, HelicopterAcademy.com
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Old 26th Aug 2004, 16:55
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gadget guru - Everything!

Moving, 3D examples would help me understand the concepts of the principles of helicopter flight much more fully - particularly flapping to equality and phase lag. I imagined perhaps a few graphics running concurrently - one showing the whole rotor from above the aircraft, one from the side or rear as appropriate and one showing the aerofoil section with the changes in relative airflow and angle of attack - all changing in sync with the relevant numbers changing too. Nothing much!

I was thinking along the lines of the graphics I have seen here - they may however be a bit too simplistic for this subject matter, dunno.

pa42 - I think all I have to offer at the moment is what a student in EXTREMELY early stages might want!

Ta.
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Old 26th Aug 2004, 17:22
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Thumbs up

I currently study for the JAA CHPL. A little more graphic display in certain areas ie. subjects would help a lot to understand that stuff.
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Old 26th Aug 2004, 20:35
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MPD

thanks that kind of narrows it down a bit form me...

i had been tinkering with the idea, particularly in regards to pre-flight briefings, watching instructors attempting to draw things Mr. Squiggle style & not having much luck, then having to explain a complex aspect, around a ordinary illustration. I mean they're pilots, not Picasso's. So i started my list

got into AGK & Aero & realised that i had stepped neck deep in it, the list grew

there are currently some excellent animations of four stroke cylce availabe lon the internet, but not all students have internet access, though they may have or at least have access to a computer.
There are a few additional things i woul like to animate in AGK, but there are things back in Met & even Human Perfromance that i'd love to play with eventually.

The crux of the problem is Aero, so much of it & it is quite difficult to understand some of the concepts when learning them initially & i often find myself having to read a section 4 times to get a grasp on it.
first time: Jesus H Christ - what was that about?
second time: OK - i think i know what he's getting at.
third time: the knee bone's connected to the hip bone....it's all starting to make sense
fourth time: Right - got it in full, no more "i think i know what he means"

I have found this in most (technically intense & unfamiliar content) things i have studied, i cannot simply read a text & take it all in, unlike some academic types, i am more of a hands on type of guy, i prefer to be able to read it, get an idea of what it is, then build it or manifest some sort of physical thing that i can then tinker with to really see what's going on.

I have been annoying the **** out of the engineers asking all the 'dumb' questions, & they have been very patient with me.

it is not viable to be able to build physical models of everything that you come across in CPL(H) theory, but to be able to visualse it... so i went down the track of 3d modelling & animation.

So now i am teaching myself how to use it, which is quite a painful process, given the fact that i am trying to complete my theory, learn 3D too, keep my better half & kids informed that i am still alive (when i venture out of the 'batcave' the study) & mantain my full time job (I.T.).

initially i am working on a basic circuits pattern.
once that's done i will work on Dissymmetry of lift, this will encompass quite a few smaller things i was going to attempt for Aero.

Once i complete them I'll find some manner of making them viewable to the PPrune community for feedback.
probably webhosted in flash format.

please be patient, & i'll try to 'make best speed'
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Old 27th Aug 2004, 07:04
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gadgetguru,

Brilliant idea. I always really struggled with concepts like flapping to equality; the only way I could understand it was to visualise it, and I'm a very poor visualiser. As to what's needed...everything, from the basics onwards. If I think of anything more specific, I'll certainly let you know. Would help me a lot now I'm supposed to be able to instruct on this stuff too.

Just had a thought - what happens to different parts of the rotor blades during autorotation would be a good one...always found that hard to understand - and learning by rote is not the same thing as understanding.
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Old 27th Aug 2004, 08:53
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first time: Jesus H Christ - what was that about?
second time: OK - i think i know what he's getting at.
third time: the knee bone's connected to the hip bone....it's all starting to make sense
fourth time: Right - got it in full, no more "i think i know what he means"
Yep that's the one - good to know i am not the only one!

learning by rote is not the same thing as understanding.
Couldn't agree more...
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Old 27th Aug 2004, 11:18
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Actually, I tend to find that some random time later, I get

fifth time: "Oh , so that's what it's all about"

Generally brought on by reading some of the posts here !
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Old 27th Aug 2004, 22:43
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RJ
exactly which is why i want to use PPruner's feedback

with the likes lf Nick, Lu, Shawn (& others whom ) loitering about within the forums, I'd be insane not to.

i have not worked out who's who yet (only been at it a month) - so apols if i've missed any other obvious ones
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Old 29th Aug 2004, 02:48
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AOR vs TPP

at the expense of my studies, i have been tinkering a little in order to produce some eye candy for you guys

I'll get it up to somewhere you can all look at it soon.

very basic at this point
shows mast & dual blade rotation paths

first being the axis or rotation, the next being the blade tip path plane, given a forward clyclic input.

this is purely to illustrate the rotor disc tilt
so there is lots of detail missing.

once concept at at time.
will advise once it is up
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Old 29th Aug 2004, 07:43
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Snoop

here we go, attempt 1


as stated very basic at this point
i have used a jetrange shell i found on the net, but intend on producing my own R-22 & B206 shells, this shows mast & dual blade rotation tip paths & rotation axis

blue blades (these will be transparent &/or 'wireframe' in the rendered version) with green 'squiggles' being the plane of rotation based around the shaft axis,
orange blades with pink/megenta 'squiggles' being the blade tip path plane about new axis of rotation (given a forward cyclic input).

video available here: http://holeygrail.khanted.com/files/AOR_vs_TPP_w206.avi

one step at at time.

Last edited by gadgetguru; 7th Sep 2004 at 05:19.
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Old 29th Aug 2004, 08:25
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gadgetguru,

It's great! Could be ver useful as a teaching aid; much better than my standing there with a toy helicopter trying to show what the blades do. Keep up the good work.
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Old 29th Aug 2004, 19:59
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bare bones

before anyone gets the wrong idea - & pipes up about it looks pretty crappy, colours are a bad choice etc.
please keep in mind that the avi produced is barebones detail, what we are looking at here is the concept being displayed, not how pretty it looks, believe me in 3d, making it 'pretty' can take 3 times as long as drawing the objects. Also Lighting is an artform that i have not even scratched the surface of yet.
there are no materials or mappings applied to any objects, there is no rendering, the final product intended is a very different beast, i simply do not have the time to do a full blown run just now
additionaly i want to be able to settle on a standard format, so that any animation i produce will be instantly recognisable as 'one of mine'
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Old 30th Aug 2004, 01:46
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more of the same

OK Gents- try these out;

front view of plane of rotation vs, tip path plane (fwd cyclic)


left view of plane of rotation vs, tip path plane (fwd cyclic)


original (perspective) view of plane of rotation vs, tip path plane (fwd cyclic)


sample movies available at:
http://holeygrail.khanted.com

I think for the time being this is all i am going to do, until i have finished my study & gotten some more flying done, then i will be in a position to tackle the 3D in earnest, so until then, feel free to PM or email me with what you would like to see, everything is on the cards, but for those of you whom have a specific concept for something that you have identified & wish to have developed, then i would be interested to hear from you, with what you had i mind.

cheers
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Old 30th Aug 2004, 08:14
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Just for the sake of accuracy......some of us aren't "gents".
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Old 30th Aug 2004, 11:25
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apols

no offence intended to all our Ladies present

i remain 'politically inaccurate'
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Old 13th Sep 2004, 04:43
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terminology

Would like to ask the question in regards to naming the respective items that i am attempting to animate.

would appreciate any comments that the theory instructors amongst the ranks can put forward

specifically the axis of rotation relative to the shaft axis.

I intend to depict both the 'Axis of Rotation' (hereby referred to as AoR) , particularly as it varies in respect to 'Shaft Axis', however if i do not maintain an illustration of exactly where AoR is, comparative to where it started from, i believe that some impact of the animation is lost.

i was intending on having this displayed as a wireframe blade & relevant circumference indicated in a subdued colour, labelling it "AoR Datum" or something similar (any suggestions - or is there already a term that i should be using)
from which the student could interpolate a starting point of the AoR of 'all things being normal' where the blades would be spinning to where the AoR results post a cyclic input.

This would entail assuming that :
the aircraft is stationery on a horizontal surface
the Shaft Axis is perpendicular to the surface &
the AoR is parallel to the surface.

Thanking you (for constructive criticism) in advance

cheers

Last edited by gadgetguru; 13th Sep 2004 at 05:13.
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