Aerobatics in a 407 (Incl. video)
Join Date: Jul 2000
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I think that it has been stated before, Bell are terrified at the prospect of being liable for ANY defect on the machine down the line. What better way of absolving themselves than by requiring an almost total rebuild. They can then claim that any subsequent fault was not related.
The American legal system SUCKS!! We as aviators have paid and paid and paid...... and in this case, once again there is a huge bill, why, because Bell needs to cover its a**e from a legal point of view!
The American legal system SUCKS!! We as aviators have paid and paid and paid...... and in this case, once again there is a huge bill, why, because Bell needs to cover its a**e from a legal point of view!
Gatvol
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Sir C.
Bell is not fully to blame. Lawyers have created their own employment. Example of a Piper Pilot a few years ago. Drunk beyond belief, crashes gets killed and who foots the bill?? Piper, big time. There are millions of stories like that.
Bell is not fully to blame. Lawyers have created their own employment. Example of a Piper Pilot a few years ago. Drunk beyond belief, crashes gets killed and who foots the bill?? Piper, big time. There are millions of stories like that.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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From Bell:
The OSN quite clearly states the Bell Helicopter position as firmly
against the use of any of our helicopters for aerobatics or any
operation prohibited by, or beyond the guidelines of the approved
Rotorcraft Flight Manual. Aerobatics is a form of flight for which Bell
Helicopter has no flight test criteria, knowledge of the imposed loads
or the potential fatigue damage that may result. From the very limited
flight test performed by Bell in severe maneuvers, it has been proven
that flight loads encountered are highly variable and very damaging.
Through engineering flight test communications, we are advised that
disposition of virtually every helicopter that has performed aerobatic
maneuvers has been scrap or at least permanent removal from service.
For these reasons, Bell cannot over-emphasize the danger associated with
performing aerobatics or other flights beyond the approved operating
envelope.
The OSN quite clearly states the Bell Helicopter position as firmly
against the use of any of our helicopters for aerobatics or any
operation prohibited by, or beyond the guidelines of the approved
Rotorcraft Flight Manual. Aerobatics is a form of flight for which Bell
Helicopter has no flight test criteria, knowledge of the imposed loads
or the potential fatigue damage that may result. From the very limited
flight test performed by Bell in severe maneuvers, it has been proven
that flight loads encountered are highly variable and very damaging.
Through engineering flight test communications, we are advised that
disposition of virtually every helicopter that has performed aerobatic
maneuvers has been scrap or at least permanent removal from service.
For these reasons, Bell cannot over-emphasize the danger associated with
performing aerobatics or other flights beyond the approved operating
envelope.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Vince290 mentions Rand $6,000,000 in estimated repairs....that comes to about 1.04 Million USD. So, the aircaft is virtually a write-off. Not bad for a clever unauthorized stunt.
CE must be proud of his accomplishments, yet I fail to see his "Professionalism" in this situation, Gunship, enlighten me?
CE must be proud of his accomplishments, yet I fail to see his "Professionalism" in this situation, Gunship, enlighten me?
Last edited by 407 Driver; 30th Nov 2004 at 13:56.
Any of you visiting the Bell 407 briefing at Heliexpo?
Bell slashed this guy to pieces (no name), showing the video and said DON'T DO THIS! Also showed the repair cost bill.
They tried to get the message through, and I think they succeded.
CB
Bell slashed this guy to pieces (no name), showing the video and said DON'T DO THIS! Also showed the repair cost bill.
They tried to get the message through, and I think they succeded.
CB
Vince290 - the fatigue damage to the airframe certainly won't be visible in the video (are you waiting for the tail to fall off to show it was a bad thing to do?) Neither will the HUMs unless the aircraft has strain gauges and accelerometers all over it (which I doubt). If the Bell TPs are regularly doing aeros then that is a matter for them and Bell to discuss but the fact that the US Army pilots are doing them is a result of the belief that unless something goes pop or bang on the aircraft then you haven't overstressed it. One wingover/loop/pedal turn won't leave any obvious physical evidence of damage but it will have reduced the life of several components, if only by a small amount. So then when the next pilot does it, and the one after him and so on, each manoeuvre in isolation is not so significant but the cumulative effect is enormous.
Bell and other manufacturers don't sell the machines to do aeros they sell them to transport people safely from place to place - just because the machine can be looped doesn't mean it should be.
As I have said before on this thread, it doesn't take great skill to loop a helicopter - it is easy, just like flying really low - but the responsible of us resist the temptation.
Bell and other manufacturers don't sell the machines to do aeros they sell them to transport people safely from place to place - just because the machine can be looped doesn't mean it should be.
As I have said before on this thread, it doesn't take great skill to loop a helicopter - it is easy, just like flying really low - but the responsible of us resist the temptation.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Vince290
You are quite wrong about the factory pilots and aerobatics.
As one who regularly worked with the Bell pilots at Mirabel - and knows the pilots well, I can state quite categorically that they do not, and have not, and probably would not ever dream of doing anything like this.
An extremely conservative and safe bunch of pilots.
I sincerely doubt that any of the pilots at Fort Worth would have done anything similar either. When I worked there, the chewing out I got for demonstrating a hovering auto from above the HV curve low hover point was quite enough, thank you.
If you are going to make comments like this, you had better be prepeared to support them.
You are quite wrong about the factory pilots and aerobatics.
As one who regularly worked with the Bell pilots at Mirabel - and knows the pilots well, I can state quite categorically that they do not, and have not, and probably would not ever dream of doing anything like this.
An extremely conservative and safe bunch of pilots.
I sincerely doubt that any of the pilots at Fort Worth would have done anything similar either. When I worked there, the chewing out I got for demonstrating a hovering auto from above the HV curve low hover point was quite enough, thank you.
If you are going to make comments like this, you had better be prepeared to support them.
Is this a Bell issue only? What about the shennanigans that dear ol' Nick gets up to with the 76 and all its research variants for the Commanche? Did Sikorsky trash can all those aircraft? Did the USMC trash the 53 that got rolled on its way home from an airshow so many years ago? Remember Herr Zimmerman and the BO-105 performances he performed over the years? As I recall we have another poster who does similar things in an Apache.....do they trash everyone of the Apaches?
This comes from the Bell helicopters that would lead one to believe that you cannot rebuild a UH-1 and get a Standard Catagory certificate.....unless you are Bell and are building a 210 from the same surplus Army airframes! Just what is the difference if I do it in my shop....or Bell does it in theirs?
This comes from the Bell helicopters that would lead one to believe that you cannot rebuild a UH-1 and get a Standard Catagory certificate.....unless you are Bell and are building a 210 from the same surplus Army airframes! Just what is the difference if I do it in my shop....or Bell does it in theirs?
