CHC Sleeping Giant
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Careflight Helicopter trial aims to cut rate of brain injuries
By Anne Davies, Sydney Morning Herald State Political Editor
March 25, 2005 - 12:03AM
CareFlight will fly specialist doctors and emergency teams by helicopter to accidents involving head injuries to see if it shortens treatment times and the chances of additional brain damage.
The NRMA is sponsoring the $11.2 million three-year trial, which will compare the results for head injury patients of those treated at the scene with those treated in the normal way by ambulance and moved to hospital.
Dr Alan Garner, CareFlight's medical director, said there were indications from Europe that treating people at the scene could halve the likelihood of a poor recovery. This is because secondary injuries are often sustained because the patient had low blood pressure or poor oxygen uptake. "We know from studies that about 40 per cent of people have low blood pressure before they reach hospital, and for a brain injury that's very bad," Dr Garner said.
"CareFlight can correct that in 80 per cent of cases because we carry four units of blood and we can transfuse the patient." He said that in London teams found they could get within 200 metres of most accidents, despite the built-up environment.
Dr Garner said the doctor and medical team could also administer anaesthetics needed to get patients intubated, even when they had a brain injury, so their oxygen levels could be kept up.
The trial involves the NRMA CareFlight aiming to get a helicopter to half of head injury accidents within 15 minutes.
The NSW State Premier, Bob Carr, who launched the trial, said it was a wonderful task. "If a reduction in severe disability and death rates can be demonstrated, then the benefits will be enormous and clearly worth it," he said.
Asked whether he would fund a full-scale CareFlight operation, the Premier said: "It would be impossible to avoid if the results come through."
Severe head injury is the most common cause of death from accidents for people aged under 40 and a leading cause of disability in the Australian community.
The NRMA is sponsoring the trial because it believes it might dramatically reduce insurance claims in the future. NRMA Insurance Group's Doug Pearce said head injuries in motor vehicle crashes cost the NSW public more than $180million a year.
"About one third of people with head injuries die and one-fifth are left with long-term severe disability. We hope this trial will show how specialist trauma care at the crash scene will help improve the recovery outcomes of injured people."
By Anne Davies, Sydney Morning Herald State Political Editor
March 25, 2005 - 12:03AM
CareFlight will fly specialist doctors and emergency teams by helicopter to accidents involving head injuries to see if it shortens treatment times and the chances of additional brain damage.
The NRMA is sponsoring the $11.2 million three-year trial, which will compare the results for head injury patients of those treated at the scene with those treated in the normal way by ambulance and moved to hospital.
Dr Alan Garner, CareFlight's medical director, said there were indications from Europe that treating people at the scene could halve the likelihood of a poor recovery. This is because secondary injuries are often sustained because the patient had low blood pressure or poor oxygen uptake. "We know from studies that about 40 per cent of people have low blood pressure before they reach hospital, and for a brain injury that's very bad," Dr Garner said.
"CareFlight can correct that in 80 per cent of cases because we carry four units of blood and we can transfuse the patient." He said that in London teams found they could get within 200 metres of most accidents, despite the built-up environment.
Dr Garner said the doctor and medical team could also administer anaesthetics needed to get patients intubated, even when they had a brain injury, so their oxygen levels could be kept up.
The trial involves the NRMA CareFlight aiming to get a helicopter to half of head injury accidents within 15 minutes.
The NSW State Premier, Bob Carr, who launched the trial, said it was a wonderful task. "If a reduction in severe disability and death rates can be demonstrated, then the benefits will be enormous and clearly worth it," he said.
Asked whether he would fund a full-scale CareFlight operation, the Premier said: "It would be impossible to avoid if the results come through."
Severe head injury is the most common cause of death from accidents for people aged under 40 and a leading cause of disability in the Australian community.
The NRMA is sponsoring the trial because it believes it might dramatically reduce insurance claims in the future. NRMA Insurance Group's Doug Pearce said head injuries in motor vehicle crashes cost the NSW public more than $180million a year.
"About one third of people with head injuries die and one-fifth are left with long-term severe disability. We hope this trial will show how specialist trauma care at the crash scene will help improve the recovery outcomes of injured people."
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Appears that Shlaaper is trying to goad anyone he can into a slanging match, whilst he hasn't made even one constructive comment to this whole post.
Maybe Full Flaps was correct in the notion of him being the one standing out the front spinning waries to anyone that would listen, only thing is he may also wear oversized shoes, makeup, a wig and a big red nose, the clown!
Maybe Full Flaps was correct in the notion of him being the one standing out the front spinning waries to anyone that would listen, only thing is he may also wear oversized shoes, makeup, a wig and a big red nose, the clown!
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Once again congrats to Aussie Helicopters (AH) on winning the SA GOV contract!
I'm not sure I agree with John Eacott's comment that they were innovative?? How, if they won it on a conforming bid does this become innovative? Maybe John is after 'a' piece of the action?
John's post - "They have negotiated (as did CHC) for about 3 years toward this outcome, and have won the contract fairly and innovatively. The equipment required was dictated by the client, leaving AH with start up costs way above those of the incumbent. To win against such odds, professionaly and "thinking outside the square", is to their credit, and to the benefit of the industry."
Thinking outside the square? What do you mean by this John?.
The giant has won and lost contracts before, and they will continue to do so in the future. They are not sleeping, falling behind, getting lazy it's the way the world works. The reason they became the giant was that they were a very profitable company which attracted the big players to buy them out. Don't forget that our own Aussie Helicopters get's some of their cash from our Asian friends, maybe one day they will become attactive to an overseas company and they too will sell up. It's about making money... I am all for competition but not for the sake of just having competition. The standards do need to stay (wages & conditions) if they don't it is not competition it's just a cheaper version. The Giant and The Bristow's etc are at the top of the 'GA' ladder, the JE's and AH's are not! So let's not get carried away with this achivement of AH's they have a long way to go.
We can all sell a service... the question is can we sell it at the right price!!!!
Best of luck to the new pilot's, crewman, engineer's who will be employed by AH! please keep them competitive don't let them reduce the wages & conditions that the Giant currently provides.
Quickdraw.
I'm not sure I agree with John Eacott's comment that they were innovative?? How, if they won it on a conforming bid does this become innovative? Maybe John is after 'a' piece of the action?
John's post - "They have negotiated (as did CHC) for about 3 years toward this outcome, and have won the contract fairly and innovatively. The equipment required was dictated by the client, leaving AH with start up costs way above those of the incumbent. To win against such odds, professionaly and "thinking outside the square", is to their credit, and to the benefit of the industry."
Thinking outside the square? What do you mean by this John?.
The giant has won and lost contracts before, and they will continue to do so in the future. They are not sleeping, falling behind, getting lazy it's the way the world works. The reason they became the giant was that they were a very profitable company which attracted the big players to buy them out. Don't forget that our own Aussie Helicopters get's some of their cash from our Asian friends, maybe one day they will become attactive to an overseas company and they too will sell up. It's about making money... I am all for competition but not for the sake of just having competition. The standards do need to stay (wages & conditions) if they don't it is not competition it's just a cheaper version. The Giant and The Bristow's etc are at the top of the 'GA' ladder, the JE's and AH's are not! So let's not get carried away with this achivement of AH's they have a long way to go.
We can all sell a service... the question is can we sell it at the right price!!!!
Best of luck to the new pilot's, crewman, engineer's who will be employed by AH! please keep them competitive don't let them reduce the wages & conditions that the Giant currently provides.
Quickdraw.
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Aquaboy, i agree with you in terms of shlaaper. But given his limitted time on forum. Maybe a second chance is in order to help him regain some composure. I think that he needs to learn, like i have, that this forum shouldnt be so agressive!
Some of my coments made the other day were not very constructive as well.
We should all be looking to learn from others!
This way hopfuly the industry can move forward positively!
Some of my coments made the other day were not very constructive as well.
We should all be looking to learn from others!
This way hopfuly the industry can move forward positively!
Quickdraw,
AH have won the Adelaide contract over a protracted period of negotiation, and were able to do so by offering "value added" outcomes which CHC failed to match. I would betray a confidence if I were to elaborate further, whether you accept that is up to you. Probity issues for the Government agencies concerned ensured that both tenderers were on a level playing field, however. AH will employ an extra 17 crews to service the contract, which has to benefit us all.
I have no involvement with AH whatsoever, and fully agree that we are at different ends of the GA spectrum. With my 6 aircraft against AH's 25+, the common ground of fleet size isn't even there, but I talk to them, as I do to Bristow and many others in our industry, and benefit from the ability to do so
AH have won the Adelaide contract over a protracted period of negotiation, and were able to do so by offering "value added" outcomes which CHC failed to match. I would betray a confidence if I were to elaborate further, whether you accept that is up to you. Probity issues for the Government agencies concerned ensured that both tenderers were on a level playing field, however. AH will employ an extra 17 crews to service the contract, which has to benefit us all.
I have no involvement with AH whatsoever, and fully agree that we are at different ends of the GA spectrum. With my 6 aircraft against AH's 25+, the common ground of fleet size isn't even there, but I talk to them, as I do to Bristow and many others in our industry, and benefit from the ability to do so
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Nite Son,
You're right about some of your comments not being not too constructive, but at least you have learned from your mistakes and admitted that this is so. John has always admitted to any of his mistakes, but he has used them and all his other long-term experience to try and help others to learn. He has posted many interesting and helpful comments on this forum.
gadget guru,
I think you're partly right, but in this industry everyone has either made a mistake at some time, or will eventually end up doing so. The foolish ones are those that don't admit to their mistakes or learn from them, as well as the mistakes of others. The really dangerous ones are those that don't admit to their mistakes and, where they have caused exceedance of aircraft limitations, fail to report them thereby potentially endangering the lives of others.
As John says, the main thing with the new contract is that it offers employment to an additional 17 crews and that must benefit all of you in the Australian industry.
You're right about some of your comments not being not too constructive, but at least you have learned from your mistakes and admitted that this is so. John has always admitted to any of his mistakes, but he has used them and all his other long-term experience to try and help others to learn. He has posted many interesting and helpful comments on this forum.
gadget guru,
I think you're partly right, but in this industry everyone has either made a mistake at some time, or will eventually end up doing so. The foolish ones are those that don't admit to their mistakes or learn from them, as well as the mistakes of others. The really dangerous ones are those that don't admit to their mistakes and, where they have caused exceedance of aircraft limitations, fail to report them thereby potentially endangering the lives of others.
As John says, the main thing with the new contract is that it offers employment to an additional 17 crews and that must benefit all of you in the Australian industry.
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QD - Perhaps you need to review history, CHC (Australia) didn't manage to get bought out because they were attractive etc to the overseas 'Big Boys', it was through a deal made between the late Guy LLoyd and the Bond Brothers that Lloyd Helicpoters, as it was known then, crossed into international ownership to Bond Helicopters. Bond were bought out by Helikopter Services (Norway) and Lloyds were strapped on for the ride. H.K.S. was the operator that was attractive to CHC International - again Lloyds were on for the ride. The name change to CHC (Australia) was part of the identity change for the 'global' operator.
As for the VPAW contract - the title of this thread summed it up, CHC "The Sleeping Giant". An operator can win a contract on the merit of the proposal or lose it based on performance delivery and hollow promises. Let's see if the snooze alarm has sounded early enough.
Regarding John Eacott's remarks - Good on you John. They were on the ball and unbiased. Always a pleasure to read your remarks. It disappoints me to look at (notice I didn't say read) so many disparaging and derogative remarks from a group that consider themselves to be "professional".
As for the VPAW contract - the title of this thread summed it up, CHC "The Sleeping Giant". An operator can win a contract on the merit of the proposal or lose it based on performance delivery and hollow promises. Let's see if the snooze alarm has sounded early enough.
Regarding John Eacott's remarks - Good on you John. They were on the ball and unbiased. Always a pleasure to read your remarks. It disappoints me to look at (notice I didn't say read) so many disparaging and derogative remarks from a group that consider themselves to be "professional".
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John,
I agree that AH put in the hard work and hard negotiating to win the contract... I never suggested they didn't. You made a comment "Thinking out side the square"
What did they do (other than provide a more competitive price) that warrant's an off the cuff comment of "Thinking out side the square". I am also not asking you to talk out of school, employing 17 personnel is not by choice, the contract is set up that way so who ever won it would be in the same boat.
Tox,
While your giving a history lesson, just for your notes... CHC is still Lloyd Helicopters - Trading as CHC Helicopters.
I agree that AH put in the hard work and hard negotiating to win the contract... I never suggested they didn't. You made a comment "Thinking out side the square"
What did they do (other than provide a more competitive price) that warrant's an off the cuff comment of "Thinking out side the square". I am also not asking you to talk out of school, employing 17 personnel is not by choice, the contract is set up that way so who ever won it would be in the same boat.
Tox,
While your giving a history lesson, just for your notes... CHC is still Lloyd Helicopters - Trading as CHC Helicopters.
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QD
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realize I should have included that information in my post. Really, my intention was to correct the suggestion that Lloyd Helicopters was bought out because they were profitable and attracted the attention of CHC through their (Lloyd's) activities, when this was not the case. But since you raised the point of trading names, did you know that Lloyd Helicopters have several different trading identities under the banner of CHC Helicopters (Australia)? It's irrelevant though and has nothing to do with this thread.
Happy Easter to All
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realize I should have included that information in my post. Really, my intention was to correct the suggestion that Lloyd Helicopters was bought out because they were profitable and attracted the attention of CHC through their (Lloyd's) activities, when this was not the case. But since you raised the point of trading names, did you know that Lloyd Helicopters have several different trading identities under the banner of CHC Helicopters (Australia)? It's irrelevant though and has nothing to do with this thread.
Happy Easter to All
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Tox...
Yes I do know that... and they are not trading identities to be correct CHC is the trading identity, the other ones are companies... and you are right... it's of the topic!
I have enjoyed my Easter, thank you! hope you do the same.
QD
Yes I do know that... and they are not trading identities to be correct CHC is the trading identity, the other ones are companies... and you are right... it's of the topic!
I have enjoyed my Easter, thank you! hope you do the same.
QD
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Quickdraw, I think Johns' comment about Aussie Helicopters "thinking outside the square" refers to their upper managements ability to "shmooze' the right people, not that they won the contract based purely on that. A cheaper price always helps! Unfortunately with a reduced cost comes reduced service or reductions in employee conditions and ultimately reduced safety. "you pay peanuts you get monkeys!" As machinery and set up costs would be roughly be the same for both CHC and AH, (In fact probably cheaper for CHC due to their size) one can only summize that the cost savings will be felt in the hip pockets of those charged with the responsibility of keeping the contract operationally safe. Competition is great, to a point......
Aquaboy, I make it a policy not to enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. As such stop wasteing bandwidth with your ignorance.
Nite son you're just an idiot!
Aquaboy, I make it a policy not to enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. As such stop wasteing bandwidth with your ignorance.
Nite son you're just an idiot!
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Amazing isn't it!!
Its those against them time again I see.
Being a provocative fella as I am, its easy to “see” those that are within the Giant, but yet cant see the arrogance of their postings, and those that sit around other parts of the industry and watch it all go flying by.
Think about it: My last view into Greenhill Road [CHC Adelaide HQ] had more than 45 non productive shiny bums tucked away in close confines, which means about 2 persons for each aircraft deployed. Australian Helicopters [Yes Aussie- Yawn!!] have about 3 helicopters for each bum.
And of course the Canadians Stripped off the assets of Lloyd Helicopters and refinanced the Aussie Fleet with Canadian Banks. Not to mention all the profits and the “Foreign Monthly Contribution” that CHC International Head Office extract from Adelaide [more AUD$ leaving forever] to fund the Canadian Shiny Bums habits.
Wonder why the costs can be contained in a slicker and more focused group?—"Overheads".
[Please don't toddle out the pulling of the "safety" heart strings, when there is no other tangible aspects to persue, its a weak case and indefensible at this stage].
One quick question for all the Giants Folk: Who is the CHC Australian Boss???
Thought so!!
The faceless Giant: I rest again.
Being a provocative fella as I am, its easy to “see” those that are within the Giant, but yet cant see the arrogance of their postings, and those that sit around other parts of the industry and watch it all go flying by.
Think about it: My last view into Greenhill Road [CHC Adelaide HQ] had more than 45 non productive shiny bums tucked away in close confines, which means about 2 persons for each aircraft deployed. Australian Helicopters [Yes Aussie- Yawn!!] have about 3 helicopters for each bum.
And of course the Canadians Stripped off the assets of Lloyd Helicopters and refinanced the Aussie Fleet with Canadian Banks. Not to mention all the profits and the “Foreign Monthly Contribution” that CHC International Head Office extract from Adelaide [more AUD$ leaving forever] to fund the Canadian Shiny Bums habits.
Wonder why the costs can be contained in a slicker and more focused group?—"Overheads".
[Please don't toddle out the pulling of the "safety" heart strings, when there is no other tangible aspects to persue, its a weak case and indefensible at this stage].
One quick question for all the Giants Folk: Who is the CHC Australian Boss???
Thought so!!
The faceless Giant: I rest again.
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High Nr 12th March:.
High Nr 28th March:
So which one is it? You were fixing the photocopier?
Your inconsistencies are really damaging your alleged impartial stance and overall credibility.
Get over it. Move on. It's not healthy.
I have never worked in your CHC system or even applied for such work.
My last view into Greenhill Road [CHC Adelaide HQ] had more than 45 non productive shiny bums tucked away....
Your inconsistencies are really damaging your alleged impartial stance and overall credibility.
Get over it. Move on. It's not healthy.
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Oh, Mr Helimed 3
Soon to be either changing hats or joining a company on the move, or maybe, most likely neither.
Read [if you make the effort], as my previous posts stand..!!
Can you work that out?
You have one very defensive attitude, but then again I can understand why.
Now, rather than challenge me Mr Bendigo, attack the question, not the man.
Read [if you make the effort], as my previous posts stand..!!
Can you work that out?
You have one very defensive attitude, but then again I can understand why.
Now, rather than challenge me Mr Bendigo, attack the question, not the man.
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Hi Nr
There simply is not enough Kiwis around to fill all the positions that are soon to become available both here in SA and in NSW. So we will be looking for slick operators like you.
We already have a Kiwi Chief Engineer who is working out fine. He doesn’t ask for much pay and works hard under difficult circumstances (no spare parts and so on.)
Unlike you Bristow style pilots and engineers working for CHC, we will be looking for real workers. That is where we will gain on efficiency.
Thankyou John for your supportive comments. They haven’t gone un-noticed by those that matter.
Yes we are "thinking outside the square". In fact we are thinking of solutions from outside the country.
All we need now is a 412. If anybody can help please PM me.
There simply is not enough Kiwis around to fill all the positions that are soon to become available both here in SA and in NSW. So we will be looking for slick operators like you.
We already have a Kiwi Chief Engineer who is working out fine. He doesn’t ask for much pay and works hard under difficult circumstances (no spare parts and so on.)
Unlike you Bristow style pilots and engineers working for CHC, we will be looking for real workers. That is where we will gain on efficiency.
Thankyou John for your supportive comments. They haven’t gone un-noticed by those that matter.
Yes we are "thinking outside the square". In fact we are thinking of solutions from outside the country.
All we need now is a 412. If anybody can help please PM me.
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Good Gracious you guys, sounds like you are married to each other.
I also think its great that AH have dethroned the Giant for a while. However where are all those pilots coming from?.
Looking at the personalities in Adelaide, there could be a few [3 or 4] that will swap uniforms, that still leaves a lot of holes.
Airframes are easy to obtain, Engineers and Flightcrew are a little harder.
I also think its great that AH have dethroned the Giant for a while. However where are all those pilots coming from?.
Looking at the personalities in Adelaide, there could be a few [3 or 4] that will swap uniforms, that still leaves a lot of holes.
Airframes are easy to obtain, Engineers and Flightcrew are a little harder.
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Red Wine
Come and see Dave and I in the Office on Wednesday.
You well know, we will not be taking the incumbent crew. We are looking for a culture change.
We know how to use Kiwis now. All you do is put an ISD Bar on the phone and you have no problems with them.
And if you know where to find a 412 let me know.
Any possibility of a job for me Gymble Stop?
Heliport
Come and see Dave and I in the Office on Wednesday.
You well know, we will not be taking the incumbent crew. We are looking for a culture change.
We know how to use Kiwis now. All you do is put an ISD Bar on the phone and you have no problems with them.
And if you know where to find a 412 let me know.
Any possibility of a job for me Gymble Stop?
Heliport
Last edited by Gymble Stop; 31st Mar 2005 at 20:59.
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Thanks for the Offer.......
But right now I am enjoying a long dose of Annual Leave.....and far far away from you guys.....Also I think my job is still there when I strap in again [hope so].
Otherwise I will come knocking.
Good luck to you all.
But right now I am enjoying a long dose of Annual Leave.....and far far away from you guys.....Also I think my job is still there when I strap in again [hope so].
Otherwise I will come knocking.
Good luck to you all.
