HEMS - Regulations and saving life
gymble,
your points are well made, and if you have been reading my previous posts on Dcotors V Paramedics and the Wollongong saga, you will have noted that I continually mention that the EMS stuff, like all other businesses, is a client driven one. Therefore, where there is a perception that things should be run differently, then the only option is to educate the client as to why it should be. If you fail to convince the client, you get that. Move on, try a different tack, but remember you are there to do a client's bidding.
Here is a difference though. The real strength of community based EMS providors is that they are not always reliant upon the client to institute change and equipment improvements. As the aviation expertise lies with the operator, they can upgrade equipment, standards, SOPs largely independant of having to educate the client on why they should provide an increase in funding.
Unlike the commercial providers.
Once the new equipment is in service, the client education process can now be so much simpler because they can be given actual demonstrations, not just subjective musings - thus more easily overcoming the problems you have mentioned above.
We shouldn't forget that the introduction of helicopter EMS was not "funded by the client". The client only came to the party after practical demonstrations of the efficacy of the service. Same with the introduction of twin engine, night capabilities, and IFR. I suggest that we would have been very very lucky to have achieved any of this by commercial operators trying to educate the client into providing funds. And thus it will probably be with NVG.
Lastly, the other "client" the community providers have is the community. They provide funding, and therefore the community providors have a duty to those clients too. How that duty is undertaken is to always strive to improve services back to the community, so that whilst your belief that the health department does not care that we cannot launch on a night job (though I strongly disagree) it is the "duty" of the community provider to find a way to help (whilst safely protecting the lives and equipment the community have given them, of course).
You said;
Well, I believe in the community provider's case, you are wrong. They rely on the line pilots, crewman, management, anybody, to utilise the funds they give to provide the best possible outcome to the public. And I think the majority of us would agree that that would be right up the NVG alley.
Your thoughts that:
Not true. You would be suprised at the movement within the NSW "client" towards adopting NVG. Producing the funding is another thing, but like IFR and twins, eventually they will be able to evaluate a working model, and re evaluate funding from there.
It is distressing that you are deaf to the safety drum. Are you sure that's what you meant?
Devil: well said.
tc: sounds like we may be winning you over.
your points are well made, and if you have been reading my previous posts on Dcotors V Paramedics and the Wollongong saga, you will have noted that I continually mention that the EMS stuff, like all other businesses, is a client driven one. Therefore, where there is a perception that things should be run differently, then the only option is to educate the client as to why it should be. If you fail to convince the client, you get that. Move on, try a different tack, but remember you are there to do a client's bidding.
Here is a difference though. The real strength of community based EMS providors is that they are not always reliant upon the client to institute change and equipment improvements. As the aviation expertise lies with the operator, they can upgrade equipment, standards, SOPs largely independant of having to educate the client on why they should provide an increase in funding.
Unlike the commercial providers.
Once the new equipment is in service, the client education process can now be so much simpler because they can be given actual demonstrations, not just subjective musings - thus more easily overcoming the problems you have mentioned above.
We shouldn't forget that the introduction of helicopter EMS was not "funded by the client". The client only came to the party after practical demonstrations of the efficacy of the service. Same with the introduction of twin engine, night capabilities, and IFR. I suggest that we would have been very very lucky to have achieved any of this by commercial operators trying to educate the client into providing funds. And thus it will probably be with NVG.
Lastly, the other "client" the community providers have is the community. They provide funding, and therefore the community providors have a duty to those clients too. How that duty is undertaken is to always strive to improve services back to the community, so that whilst your belief that the health department does not care that we cannot launch on a night job (though I strongly disagree) it is the "duty" of the community provider to find a way to help (whilst safely protecting the lives and equipment the community have given them, of course).
You said;
It is the client that must determine if NVGs represent value for money not you as a line pilot.
Your thoughts that:
It is clear that you wish to be able to perform what you see as your role better. And NVGs may be able to help. This is admirable. But this is your want. This is not necessarily the view of the client.
It is distressing that you are deaf to the safety drum. Are you sure that's what you meant?
Devil: well said.
tc: sounds like we may be winning you over.
What wonderful motherhood statements. When no further points can be made, lets jump straight to these meaningful coverall staements that no one can disagree with. That way it will look like we really ARE right, and we really DO have the moral high ground. But you guys forgot a few: how about,
There are no old and bold pilots.
It is better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than the other way around.
The lives of the helicopter crew are just as important as the lives of the patients you are going to help.
As for the relevancy of our conversation? Zip. It is irrelevant because we are talking about the introduction of NVG, we are not disagreeing on the correct resourcing and training issues.
Vice Like, you obviously know me, as I dont try to disguise my identity, but rather than hijack this thread about Wollongong, perhaps you could create your own?
There are no old and bold pilots.
It is better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than the other way around.
The lives of the helicopter crew are just as important as the lives of the patients you are going to help.
As for the relevancy of our conversation? Zip. It is irrelevant because we are talking about the introduction of NVG, we are not disagreeing on the correct resourcing and training issues.
Vice Like, you obviously know me, as I dont try to disguise my identity, but rather than hijack this thread about Wollongong, perhaps you could create your own?
"Just a pilot"
Gymble-
"Learn how to say no."
I do, and We do. It's clearly not been effective in preventing accidents.
"Nobody is expected to work in an un-safe environment."
Training for night scenes and the assignment of are expectation of "work in an unsafe environment." It's proven, or this thread would not have occurred. Your answer is to deny the problem or this discussion?
"If you can not do it safely, DO NOT do it. This is your responsibility as professionals."
Again, denying the problem. There is a clear statistical correlation, days and nights. EMS pilots are only stupid at night, or they're susceptible to a physiological limitation- poor vision- at night?
I'll repeat an earlier assertion- The cost of one accident could equip my employers' entire fleet. Stick your head in the sand and blame the pilot, if you wish. It hasn't worked, it will continue to be ineffective, and it's poor management. If and when the insurance industry or governing bodies require aided night vision, and they will, managements' responsibility and control of the process will be gone. I'd rather have an answer tailored to my operation instead of a "one size fits all, lowest common denominator" solution.
My problem is clear- I can't see well at night, and it could kill me. I'm motivated. The answer, too is clear- aided night vision, not:
Twin engines;
Two pilots;
IFR all the time.
Another potential answer- no night scenes. The competition, who are moving to NVGs, thank you very much.
Management's issue is that pilots can't see at night, and the result is expensive. It will only get more expensive, unaddressed- some lawyer, some where, will clean your corporate clock, good fashion. There are times when the otherwise ridiculous tort system in the U.S. works...
NVGs are less expensive and better answer, all around- I have an improved probability of success.
"Learn how to say no."
I do, and We do. It's clearly not been effective in preventing accidents.
"Nobody is expected to work in an un-safe environment."
Training for night scenes and the assignment of are expectation of "work in an unsafe environment." It's proven, or this thread would not have occurred. Your answer is to deny the problem or this discussion?
"If you can not do it safely, DO NOT do it. This is your responsibility as professionals."
Again, denying the problem. There is a clear statistical correlation, days and nights. EMS pilots are only stupid at night, or they're susceptible to a physiological limitation- poor vision- at night?
I'll repeat an earlier assertion- The cost of one accident could equip my employers' entire fleet. Stick your head in the sand and blame the pilot, if you wish. It hasn't worked, it will continue to be ineffective, and it's poor management. If and when the insurance industry or governing bodies require aided night vision, and they will, managements' responsibility and control of the process will be gone. I'd rather have an answer tailored to my operation instead of a "one size fits all, lowest common denominator" solution.
My problem is clear- I can't see well at night, and it could kill me. I'm motivated. The answer, too is clear- aided night vision, not:
Twin engines;
Two pilots;
IFR all the time.
Another potential answer- no night scenes. The competition, who are moving to NVGs, thank you very much.
Management's issue is that pilots can't see at night, and the result is expensive. It will only get more expensive, unaddressed- some lawyer, some where, will clean your corporate clock, good fashion. There are times when the otherwise ridiculous tort system in the U.S. works...
NVGs are less expensive and better answer, all around- I have an improved probability of success.
Here in the Czech Republic we do not do night “Primary” (Scene) missions. A limited number of assigned EMS stations do inter-hospital transfers only, into night approved helipads operating Night VFR. There is talk of the introduction of Primary missions at night and companies are already looking at NVG’s if that is the case. The owner of my company just happens to think the same. Maybe it’s because he fly’s night shifts as well.
HAI publishes White Paper on EMS Safety
http://www.rotor.com/news/hemswhitepaper.pdf
The FAA had their go...now it is the operator's turn.
Hopefully, the PHPA will have it's go....then we shall have heard from the three big sectors in the industry.
The FAA had their go...now it is the operator's turn.
Hopefully, the PHPA will have it's go....then we shall have heard from the three big sectors in the industry.
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HEMS - 'The Golden Hour' ITV1
ITV1, Wednesday Sept 14th at nine...
"The Golden Hour New series. Drama about an elite team of helicopter medics, beginning as doctors, Jane Cameron, Paul Keane and Naz Osbourne are called to the scene of a horrific bus crash, where a risky invasive procedure seems to offer the only chance of saving an injured youngster's life. Zoe Telford, Ciaran McMenamin and Navin Chowdhry star"
Nice to see some prime time exposure for air amb's.
"The Golden Hour New series. Drama about an elite team of helicopter medics, beginning as doctors, Jane Cameron, Paul Keane and Naz Osbourne are called to the scene of a horrific bus crash, where a risky invasive procedure seems to offer the only chance of saving an injured youngster's life. Zoe Telford, Ciaran McMenamin and Navin Chowdhry star"
Nice to see some prime time exposure for air amb's.
OH OH:
I can envision it now- Having seen how aviation dramas usually unfold.
After a couple of programs the public will begin to expect the real world Air Ambulance crews to arrive at supersonic speed in 1/4 mile vis in hail and lightning at night to a scene call in a swamp. They will then perform successful brain surgery on the adorable child victim using only a pen knife and a bobby pin.
The crews will all be expected to be beautiful / handsome and probably under 20 with years of experience.
I can envision it now- Having seen how aviation dramas usually unfold.
After a couple of programs the public will begin to expect the real world Air Ambulance crews to arrive at supersonic speed in 1/4 mile vis in hail and lightning at night to a scene call in a swamp. They will then perform successful brain surgery on the adorable child victim using only a pen knife and a bobby pin.
The crews will all be expected to be beautiful / handsome and probably under 20 with years of experience.
If you want to see a really "interesting" show, watch Medi-copter on German TV. One episode had a pilot transferred from the end of a sling on a Squirrel, to the Medi-copter BK, while it was flying!!! Didn't know you could do that...
I number of years ago there was a program in Oz called "Medivac" I think. In one episode the pilot wouldn't take off due to approaching severe storm (Brisbane in summer) so the paramedic jumped in and started the Longranger, and was about to fly when the pilot finally agreed to carry out the flight. Haven't had that problem with the medical crew yet...
Cheers, and watch out for Ambo's with flying ambitions!
BM
I number of years ago there was a program in Oz called "Medivac" I think. In one episode the pilot wouldn't take off due to approaching severe storm (Brisbane in summer) so the paramedic jumped in and started the Longranger, and was about to fly when the pilot finally agreed to carry out the flight. Haven't had that problem with the medical crew yet...
Cheers, and watch out for Ambo's with flying ambitions!
BM
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just watched this ITV drama and i can't say anything good about it. Only 2 flying scenes, the 1st copper on scene uses her medical know how and calls for HEMS and they arrive before the other medical teams and fire service. The HEMS team remain with the casualties even when they go off to the ward. Is it normal practice to actually have 3 doctors onboard?
Its great to see the air ambulance getting some recognition but this series looks set to be poo.
Oh and just another quick moan, the woman whos boy was injured said she lost her husband in the gulf 10 years ago, i make that 1995 mmmmmm i think not.
Did anyone else see it? your thoughts please.
Its great to see the air ambulance getting some recognition but this series looks set to be poo.
Oh and just another quick moan, the woman whos boy was injured said she lost her husband in the gulf 10 years ago, i make that 1995 mmmmmm i think not.
Did anyone else see it? your thoughts please.
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Didn't even bother watching...knew it would be inacurate rubbish.....from the trailer shown where the lady bobby 'calls-in' the "helicopter medic" (noticed too by Tony C). No doubt there was or soon will be plenty of idle banter whilst onboard, without headsets.......you know the drill !
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Well I just watched it and I could not find much wrong with it except that the takeoff sounded like a Jetranger.
Apart from that I thought it was educating the Public quite nicely what HEMS do.
Apart from that I thought it was educating the Public quite nicely what HEMS do.