Chopper 4 Crash in New York (incl videos)
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AS350 Squirrel Accident in NYC
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I have a strange mix of fascination and dread of such footage - great to hear that the guys inside were not seriously hurt.
The observed combination of lack of yaw control and an apparently misbehaving engine looks like a nightmare scenario - unless I have misinterpreted the few seconds of coverage.
My personal amber caption is always ON when I am low and slow - which could have been the case here (speculation of course). Of course, that is where a lot of us have to do our job
The observed combination of lack of yaw control and an apparently misbehaving engine looks like a nightmare scenario - unless I have misinterpreted the few seconds of coverage.
My personal amber caption is always ON when I am low and slow - which could have been the case here (speculation of course). Of course, that is where a lot of us have to do our job
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Engine or Hydraulics?
Nr looked OK on the brief footage I saw on the news which kind of counts out an engine failure as reported on the news here. All the other symptoms are consistent with a degraded hydraulic mode if the aircraft was an AS350BA.
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Last edited by AllJeep; 5th May 2004 at 14:32.
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Alljeep,
It looks even worse when you see more of it................
Certainly looks like loss of yaw control without anywhere nice to go and not much airspeed................
It looks even worse when you see more of it................
Certainly looks like loss of yaw control without anywhere nice to go and not much airspeed................
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SWAG (Speculative Wild-A$$ Guess)...
During the extended footage scenes, doesn't it look like he briefly entered an auto in the beginning? Then, when he got closer to buildings, perhaps he tried to add power... problems with TR lead to results?
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Associated Press
Federal investigators launch investigation of helicopter crash
May 5, 2004, 2:39 PM EDT
NEW YORK
May 5, 2004, 2:39 PM EDT
NEW YORK
-- Federal transportation officials began investigating on Wednesday what caused a news helicopter to spin out of control and crash on a Brooklyn rooftop, causing minor injuries to the reporter and two pilots on board.
Reporter Andrew Torres and the pilots were in stable condition at Brooklyn hospitals, a day after they had flown to the area to cover a shooting for WNBC-TV. The careening chopper clipped a four-story apartment building and then crashed in pieces onto the neighboring two-story building.
The helicopter pilot had reported a "tail rotor failure" to air traffic controllers at Kennedy International Airport moments before the 6:21 p.m. crash, according to Jim Peters, a Federal Aviation Administration spokesman.
Luke Schiada, a senior investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board, said Wednesday that officials had not identified a cause, but were interested in the pilot's report.
"We're obviously going to take a closer look at that," he said.
The tail rotor, which essentially counteracts the force created by the turning of the main rotor, could fail in several different scenarios, aviation expert Walt Lamon said. He also said that a tail rotor failure is generally not a problem that would be identified during preflight inspection.
"Everyone in the industry will look at this for causes and ways that this can be avoided," he said. Helicopters "have a good safety record, it's a relatively safe activity, and there will be efforts focused on making it safer because of this."
Investigators also will be examining footage of the crash shot by another news station. The NTSB expects to issue a preliminary report in about five days, and a final ruling in several months.
"We have a lot more work still to do and we don't want to jump to any conclusions," Schiada told reporters during a briefing at the crash site, where two other news helicopters circled overhead.
Cranes removed the mangled pieces of the WNBC-TV helicopter, which was owned by Helinet Aviation Services, and placed them on flatbed trucks Wednesday morning. The California-based company refused to comment on the crash or give further information about the three passengers, who are their employees. Torres is a freelance reporter.
Jill Nicolini, who covers traffic and breaking news each day from a helicopter for WB11's "Morning News," said she was shocked, when she saw the wreckage, that the passengers survived.
"It does make you aware that it can be a dangerous job, but if you have a passion and love for flying like I do and you know how statistically safe flying is, I'm confident," said Nicolini, who is training for an airplane pilot's license.
There were 212 civilian helicopter crashes nationwide in 2003, 37 with fatalities, a slight increase from 2002, which saw 205 crashes, 26 that were fatal, according to the Helicopter Association International, which compiles FAA and NTSB data.
Reporter Andrew Torres and the pilots were in stable condition at Brooklyn hospitals, a day after they had flown to the area to cover a shooting for WNBC-TV. The careening chopper clipped a four-story apartment building and then crashed in pieces onto the neighboring two-story building.
The helicopter pilot had reported a "tail rotor failure" to air traffic controllers at Kennedy International Airport moments before the 6:21 p.m. crash, according to Jim Peters, a Federal Aviation Administration spokesman.
Luke Schiada, a senior investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board, said Wednesday that officials had not identified a cause, but were interested in the pilot's report.
"We're obviously going to take a closer look at that," he said.
The tail rotor, which essentially counteracts the force created by the turning of the main rotor, could fail in several different scenarios, aviation expert Walt Lamon said. He also said that a tail rotor failure is generally not a problem that would be identified during preflight inspection.
"Everyone in the industry will look at this for causes and ways that this can be avoided," he said. Helicopters "have a good safety record, it's a relatively safe activity, and there will be efforts focused on making it safer because of this."
Investigators also will be examining footage of the crash shot by another news station. The NTSB expects to issue a preliminary report in about five days, and a final ruling in several months.
"We have a lot more work still to do and we don't want to jump to any conclusions," Schiada told reporters during a briefing at the crash site, where two other news helicopters circled overhead.
Cranes removed the mangled pieces of the WNBC-TV helicopter, which was owned by Helinet Aviation Services, and placed them on flatbed trucks Wednesday morning. The California-based company refused to comment on the crash or give further information about the three passengers, who are their employees. Torres is a freelance reporter.
Jill Nicolini, who covers traffic and breaking news each day from a helicopter for WB11's "Morning News," said she was shocked, when she saw the wreckage, that the passengers survived.
"It does make you aware that it can be a dangerous job, but if you have a passion and love for flying like I do and you know how statistically safe flying is, I'm confident," said Nicolini, who is training for an airplane pilot's license.
There were 212 civilian helicopter crashes nationwide in 2003, 37 with fatalities, a slight increase from 2002, which saw 205 crashes, 26 that were fatal, according to the Helicopter Association International, which compiles FAA and NTSB data.
Anyone else out there had an AS35x tail rotor failure ? AND hit a house and survived with all the crew ?
On a serious note, a large amount of both luck and skill must have played a part in ending up without fatalities either among the crew or Joe Doe on the ground - well done.
On a serious note, a large amount of both luck and skill must have played a part in ending up without fatalities either among the crew or Joe Doe on the ground - well done.
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Helicopter Crash NY city
The video is on BBC News 24, which looks like the pilot had his hands full on a 'bucking bronco' squirrel.
TV crew survives chopper crash
The crash was filmed by another news helicopter crew
A local TV news reporter and two pilots have escaped serious injury after their helicopter crashed on the roof of an apartment building in New York City.
The crew from WNBC-TV were covering a shooting in the Flatbush area of Brooklyn on Tuesday when the helicopter seemed to spin out of control.
It hit a building then dramatically broke apart as it fell onto a rooftop.
The reporter and two men who were on board are said to be in stable condition in hospital.
There were no reports of injuries on the ground.
Witnesses said the aircraft made a noise like a stuttering motorcycle before it went down.
"I looked out of the window, and it was spinning around out of control. And then it dropped down behind some trees," Roger Green told the AP news agency.
A helicopter from rival local news station WABC-TV caught the crash on video.
The reporter on board told WABC-TV: "You're hoping they're able to get out of it, and then you are hoping you can help them.
"It's just a horrible, horrible thing to witness."
Investigators are still trying to determine the cause of the accident.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3688061.stm
All is well that ends well (pure rotary mate skill)
SIA
TV crew survives chopper crash
The crash was filmed by another news helicopter crew
A local TV news reporter and two pilots have escaped serious injury after their helicopter crashed on the roof of an apartment building in New York City.
The crew from WNBC-TV were covering a shooting in the Flatbush area of Brooklyn on Tuesday when the helicopter seemed to spin out of control.
It hit a building then dramatically broke apart as it fell onto a rooftop.
The reporter and two men who were on board are said to be in stable condition in hospital.
There were no reports of injuries on the ground.
Witnesses said the aircraft made a noise like a stuttering motorcycle before it went down.
"I looked out of the window, and it was spinning around out of control. And then it dropped down behind some trees," Roger Green told the AP news agency.
A helicopter from rival local news station WABC-TV caught the crash on video.
The reporter on board told WABC-TV: "You're hoping they're able to get out of it, and then you are hoping you can help them.
"It's just a horrible, horrible thing to witness."
Investigators are still trying to determine the cause of the accident.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3688061.stm
All is well that ends well (pure rotary mate skill)
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NR Fairy
Yes - Our fellow prooner Roofus in the South Wales Police machine. Like the pilot in the recent incident, he probably said
in the moments before impact as well!!!
Wishing a speedy recovery to those involved
Yes - Our fellow prooner Roofus in the South Wales Police machine. Like the pilot in the recent incident, he probably said
in the moments before impact as well!!!Wishing a speedy recovery to those involved
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mms://wabctv.wmod.llnwd.net/a114/o1/wabc_050504_chopperupdate.wmv
http://wabctv.wmod.llnwd.net/a114/o1...pperupdate.wmv
http://wabctv.wmod.llnwd.net/a114/o1...pperupdate.wmv
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Not My Choice of Prob....
Not sure how other Ppruners feel but...... I always thought one or both donks quitting would be preferable to TR clocking out.... something vaguely reassuring about having the pedals connected to........well anything really bm
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Look at the frames from 1:30 seconds to 1:56 seconds in the clip listed above. To me, it looks like he dumped collective with nose low to gain airspeed in the beginning... and made an excellent recovery. I'm guessing, but since he didn't have many landing options - he probably tried to bring power back for the safety of those below. Nicely done, indeed. No fire, but I'm amazed at how easily the tail section broke off like that!
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Watched this thing lots today at work. Dont think it was a tailrotor failure for a couple of reasons....
Disclaimer: I am armchairing this one, yes I know I wasnt there, but, having flown the type, and looking at the video, here's my best guess:
He appeared to be in an auto , starts to flare, looks like he try to stretch just a little as he brings in power, he gets the nose left yaw. then abrubt right, then bucks all over the place. almost regains control. If he had lost the tail rotor , he would have started to spin, as he increased power, not quite the same "dance he went through". The T/R appears to still be spinning it looked like he had plent of NR.
The Astar is flyable, with loss of t/r, youll spin, but once you pass thourgh 30kts or so, it'll fly. If it was a simple T/R failure, you could feasibly fly it a ways and run it on.The Astar has a long tail boom and weathervane's pretty good. Thats not to say it wasn't some wiered jammed pedal senario.
This is my theory:
He had a HYD failure. The horn went off (same horn as eng out), entered an auto trying to make the first rooftop. Flared at the bottom, brings in power, not enough R pedal (its a B**ch) and lost it. Looked like (imo)he was wrestleing the HYD (from the pitching, gyrations and viloent attitude changes), trying to get it under control, with several near recoverys. If it gets away from you, and your not prepared , it will look alot like what I saw on the video.
Only time and NTSB will tell.
All I gotta say is , thank god they all walked away.
Any comments?
RB
Disclaimer: I am armchairing this one, yes I know I wasnt there, but, having flown the type, and looking at the video, here's my best guess:
He appeared to be in an auto , starts to flare, looks like he try to stretch just a little as he brings in power, he gets the nose left yaw. then abrubt right, then bucks all over the place. almost regains control. If he had lost the tail rotor , he would have started to spin, as he increased power, not quite the same "dance he went through". The T/R appears to still be spinning it looked like he had plent of NR.
The Astar is flyable, with loss of t/r, youll spin, but once you pass thourgh 30kts or so, it'll fly. If it was a simple T/R failure, you could feasibly fly it a ways and run it on.The Astar has a long tail boom and weathervane's pretty good. Thats not to say it wasn't some wiered jammed pedal senario.
This is my theory:
He had a HYD failure. The horn went off (same horn as eng out), entered an auto trying to make the first rooftop. Flared at the bottom, brings in power, not enough R pedal (its a B**ch) and lost it. Looked like (imo)he was wrestleing the HYD (from the pitching, gyrations and viloent attitude changes), trying to get it under control, with several near recoverys. If it gets away from you, and your not prepared , it will look alot like what I saw on the video.
Only time and NTSB will tell.
All I gotta say is , thank god they all walked away.
Any comments?
RB
Last edited by rotorboy; 6th May 2004 at 02:37.
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Not a bad scenario; however, he reported TR failure to ATC before the incident. Also, we don't see what happened prior to the auto in the video. Here is the preliminary FAA report (not NTSB):
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/K_0505_N.txt
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/K_0505_N.txt
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RotorBoy, I can't see your point of view Re: the Auto.
Astars generally fall out of the sky at a healthy rate of descent when in an auto, this guy seems to be in a fairly level attitude for the first several seconds, it appears to me that it was his controllability that was the issue.
In attacking your thoughts, granted, The camera angle may have made it look like more of a level flight path, and he may have elected to pull off power at some point in the sequence.
My thoughts...T/R is spinning, MR seems to have adequate rpm...gotta be a control problem, either hydraulic or other?
...or as you did say .... Thats not to say it wasn't some wiered jammed pedal senario.
He did a great job under the circumstances...here's hoping for a speedy recovery.
Astars generally fall out of the sky at a healthy rate of descent when in an auto, this guy seems to be in a fairly level attitude for the first several seconds, it appears to me that it was his controllability that was the issue.
In attacking your thoughts, granted, The camera angle may have made it look like more of a level flight path, and he may have elected to pull off power at some point in the sequence.
My thoughts...T/R is spinning, MR seems to have adequate rpm...gotta be a control problem, either hydraulic or other?
...or as you did say .... Thats not to say it wasn't some wiered jammed pedal senario.
He did a great job under the circumstances...here's hoping for a speedy recovery.
