Helmets - Should you? and Which?

[rotorrookie]

Is the relatively marginal saving, compared with the cost of a "proper" aircraft helmet, ( and considering the total cost of operating your particular ride ) worth the RISK of finding out the hard way that the motorcycle / rally / bicycle / skateboarding helmet you used / modified to save a few pounds, leaves you with a fractured skull / broken neck ( or worse ) ?

And a motorcycle helmet will also be designed to protect a motorcyclist against the typical impact from falling / being knocked off their bike and hitting / skidding along the tarmac ( etc.)

Quote:

WTF... Do you really beleave that a motorcycle or rally helmet would not work well in helicopter crash....Im not talking about bicycle helmet or skatebord helmet, a hat would do better.

I don't know to what standards pilot's helmets are constructed, but there is a variation in motorbike helmet standards around the world, reflected in the individual state's approval stamp.

So very true, there is a lot of crap helmets on the market and that is why you would for your motorbike riding not buy the very cheapest one out there but preferably well known brands like Arai,HJC or Shoei maybe.
I'm with those brands you can find helmet that is just as safe as any flight helmet.
Another easy way to solve the comms:
tbone aviation

Arai helmet test
RX-7 GP

[Coconutty]

Do you really beleave that a motorcycle or rally helmet would not work well in helicopter crash....Im not talking about bicycle helmet or skatebord helmet, a hat would do better

What I believe is not important - but as it happens - NO - I don't think a motorcycle would perform well enough in all types of helicopter crash, ( or for general use without crashing ) - compared with a helmet designed for helicopter use.

Of course if you stuff it up trying a run on landing onto tarmac, roll over, lose a window and end up with your skid lid dragging across the tarmac, it might perform just as well - as this might closely approximate a motorcycle crash.

But again - why risk it just to save a few bucks

The reference to bicycle and skateboard helmets is merely to demonstrate - as you appear to have agreed with - that cheaper isn't necessarily better.

I'll stick to a helmet designed for helicopter "use" thank you very much, and not just for the protection during a crash - which everyone hopes will never be put to the test

[John R81]

I am with RR here.

What I see time and again in helicopters is that just because the machine / spares / maintenance has to be exacting and therefore costs the earth anything associated with helicopters "must" justify an exhorbitant price.

It isn't just helmets but many other things - starting with ground handling devices (a powered fork-lift truck, after all, which costs less than £1k can be easily adapted to do the job of a £5k "specialist" device) but I don't want to thread-hijack). Sticking with helmets:

The violence exerted on your head in a motorcycle accident is impressive. A helmet that can withstand that is certainly going to sail through a roll-over.

And which motorcycle visors are not shatterproof?

Not sure about the sound attenuation - not my field - but have you ever ridden a bike? Wind, road and bike engines are not silent.

I have some insight into the economics of Defence equipment and I don't share your "it cost the earth, it must be tested and it must be good" view. A serving friend of mine buys his some of his own equipment rather than use the stuff provided (and I am talking about the stuff that goes "bang" as well as boots, weather-proofs and other material). Luckily he is in a regiment where that is allowed.

I suspect that much of the cost comes from small production runs and a desire to hit a certain profit margin. If someone convinced the motorcycle helmet manufacturers to adapt one of their designs it would give them an additional outlet at marginal costing and we would all have access to a truely effective and competetively priced helmet.

Rant over - does anyone know the CEO of a helmet manufacturing company?

John

[rotorrookie]

I suspect that much of the cost comes from small production runs and a desire to hit a certain profit margin. If someone convinced the motorcycle helmet manufacturers to adapt one of their designs it would give them an additional outlet at marginal costing and we would all have access to a truely effective and competetively priced helmet.

You just nailed it there John. It would be the biggest safety improvement for whole helicopter industry if helmets where prised so crews would not have to think twice if to buy one or not. I think the only way that would be possible if one of big helmet brands would start making helmet for heli's and most likely by coming up with a helmet that is variant of something they are already making or a helmet that can also be used in other roles so the desing and manufacturing cost would be a lot less per copy.
Imagine if every student could go and buy one at the very beginning his/her training. I wonder how many lives/injuries just that would save.

The claim that helicopter helmets must be safer than any other "good helmet" just because it is a whole lot more expensive is no bloody logic to me, but there are many of you here who really believe that crap presumably because you backside is very soar from all rear-ending that the other nonsense price levels in this industry has give you and you just dont bother to take one more

[jab]

I was once issued a helmet which had been manufactured by a company which also manufactured motorcycle helmets. The company was based in South Africa, called "Lafe" with an accent on the e. They had seen the demand and the exorbitant cost of flight helmets when the import duties had been factored in and sold a bunch to the Air Force. I found it to be extremely well made and very comfortable. They used exactly the same technology that they used for their motorcycle helmets but changed the shape of the shell to accommodate the earpieces, visors and NVG's. Unfortunately they no longer make helmets for helicopters.

I see no reason why a decent motorcycle helmet which has passed the required testing should not be used and as has been mentioned, CEPS and a microphone would be really easy to install. Motorcycle helmets are also probably more comfortable to wear for long periods since they are vented and have decent interior padding. The companies which make them have a lot more money for research than the typical flight helmet manufacturer.

I have an Alpha which I am very happy with but I would not be against having more options in the future.

[Coconutty]

all (the) rear-ending

You'd also need good whiplash protection for that

You may be correct and a decent quality motorbike helmet may do the job and the after market comms and noise attenuation etc etc may be suitable ...... I don't know - so I will stick with what has been recommended by others.

As an aside - in these days of "Where there's a blame - there's a claim etc", what would an insurance company think if someone suffered a head injury while wearing a helmet not "approved" or "recommended" for helicopter use ?

Would this give them a get out from paying injury compensation ?
It could certainly delay any payment while legal teams submit their arguments.
Again I don't know the answer, and I don't want to see it put to the test, but it is one more element that goes towards making my own personal decision.

[Evil Twin]

OK. So, I stirred up something of a hornets nest when I made such an innocuous (spelling?) comment. I've been sitting on the fence a little although leaning towards the idea that motorcycle helmets, properly converted would probably be acceptable, maybe, maybe not. I'll no doubt get flamed for that but hey ho.

So for my next little firecracker:-

How about the fact that if a converted motorcycle helmet were cost effective enough to put it withtin the reach of more pilots, and lets face it most of us don't earn very much, then they would, or could, be worn by a greater percentage. Therefore the net safety margin were raised by a greater number wearing more protection that merely a headset.

Surely that, would mitigate the risk!? of potentially inferior protection of a certified design.

This debate is fascinating.

[mickjoebill]

There is a market in offshore, aerial work, flight training and military for helmets that are adjustable to fit most sizes of heads.

Probably would need a range of say 5 sizes?
Each helmet with adjustable strap at the base of the skull and a lever something like a series of 5 ski boot straps, that pulls the inner foam so it expands and conforms to the head.

In my view there as many casual flyers who get a thrill from wearing a helmet as those who are turned off.

Adjustable ski boots that can fit all and sundry is a pointer that it can be done for head gear too.



Mickjoebill

[helmet fire]

Hi ET,
What is fascinating in the debate is the unsupported proposition that a motor bike helmet may "potentially" be better than a purpose design. Now that is not quite a firecracker, but it is a cracker.

There are an established set of helmet standards, designed in blood from literally hundreds of helo accidents. But here on the prune, we can ignore all that and suppose, just because it seems likely, that those standards are unecessary and in fact, are probably just to make sure the helmet is too expensive to use.

I say again: $3000 for your noggin. BARGAIN.

MJB: there are already purpose designed multifit helmets meeting aviation spec on the market: the Alpha 400 series is the best example. NVG cannot be mounted on them, but for all the other uses it ticks the boxes.

[Evil Twin]

Helmet Fire I'm not trying to make a point that motorcycle helmets are more protective than purpose designed helicopter helmets. They may be we'll probably never know. My point is this:-

1. Do I think helmets are a good idea? YES
2. Do I have $1000's of dollars to buy one? NO
3. Would I buy one if I had the $'s YES
4. Would a motorcycle helmet properly converted provide more protection than merely a headset? YES
5. Is some protection better than none? YES

I'm not trying to be argementative, I'm just of the opinion that any form of protection is better than none at all, and that affordable protection used by a higher % of people because it's affordable produces a net gain in safety.

Cheers
ET

[RoToR_V8D]

Helmet Dongle - Gallet NATO to Bose Din Plug?

Hey guys and Gals,

I have a Gallet Helmet with the standard NATO plug fit. I am about to start flying an R44 for a mate between Spray Jobs, so I would really like to use my Helmet. The R44 is rigged for the (included) Bose Aviation X Headsets, which are great, but don't offer any protection in a prang obviously.

Q. Does anyone know of a Dongle/interface that will allow me to use my helmet in this aircraft.

Note: I have spoken with Bose Australia. The best they can offer is a wiring diagram. They are not allowed (apparently) to change the plug on my helmet to suit either. Internet Search has revealed nothing. Flight Helmets Australia, the Gallet Dealer, has equally come up blank.

I can't believe this issue hasn't already been addressed globally?

Any ideas?

Cheers

[FloaterNorthWest]

RoToR,

Is the Bose headset on the R44 a Lemo connector?

FNW

[RoToR_V8D]

Gotcha

Thanks guys. It is a LEMO connector (I had never heard of them before now); but I should be able to buy off the shelf at a last resort thanks to all your info.

I have a couple of Green Trade mates here in Oz who reckon that if I source the plugs, they can splice the dongle. I'll see if I can source the plugs now...

Thanks heaps for all your help. Hope the info helps others too

Cheers

[TiPwEiGhT]

Hello folks,

Does anybody know of a small torch of some sort that would fit on to a MSA Gallet? Or even a good pen with a built in light to makes writing during night trips easier?

Many thanks,

TiP

[Senior Pilot]

TiPwEiGhT,

There are some references earlier in this thread to Liplights, and also in Night Lights and http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/189...ipment - Torch, which may be of help

[Gomer Pylot]

I use an LED headlight, remove the elastic band, and Velcro it to the visor cover. There are many available, and I don't even know the brand or model I'm using now. It has red, blue, and white LEDs, but the first on is red, and when I'm done I just loosen the screw-on battery cap, and it goes off without switching to the other lights. It has a diffraction lens, works on one AA battery, and does a good job for me. I've modified others to use green LEDs, with work OK. There are many that use multiple AAA batteries, but are harder to turn off without cycling through all the colors.

[J.A.F.O.]

There's a company called Aero-ist (no, it's not my company) that does some intermediate head protection - nowhere near a helmet but slightly more than just a headset.

I've got one of their hats.

[flyingmedic]

It wont be hard to guess what profession I am in from my user name. I am fortunate enough to fly in a helicopter AND ride a motorbike for a living. Whilst flying I use an Alpha Eagle helmet and whilst riding I use a Shoei Multitech. The reason I have two different helmets is because although they are both designed to protect your head, they do it in different ways, and for different type of impacts. Trust me if my employer could get away with not buying two helmets, it would.
The vast majority of motorbike accidents involve a single impact, followed by a long slide. The longer this slide is the better, as it means that there are less deceleration forces absorbed by the poor victim and therefore fewer and less serious injuries, so a bike helmet is designed to slide so deceleration is at a minimum and it therefore has good abrasion resistance. The noise reduction methods used in motorbike helmets is primarily done to reduce the noise created BY the helmet, wind noise being the greatest form of noise pollution with motorbikes. Venting on motorbike helmets is designed to work in a flow of air, not whilst static. The pressure differences around the helmet cause airflow through it, but that is something you guys will understand far better than I. Any biker stuck in traffic will tell you how hot it gets inside that gear when there is no airflow around you.
It seems to me that aviation helmets are designed differently. I would think that an aviation helmet would have to withstand multiple impacts as your head is thrown around inside an aircraft and lose objects strike you. As noise is created by the aircraft and not the helmet, the way in which an aviation helmet deals with noise also has to be different. Aviation is a far safer industry than road transport, you don't see the same level of investigation or recommendations after a road accident, I don't think Ford would redesign a car because a driver lost control.
In short I cant see why anyone would wear a motorbike helmet in a helicopter. Yes aviation helmets are expensive, and I'm not going to try and justify that, I'm sure most things aviation could be done a lot cheaper if the manufacturers Vs demand ratios were different. But I would say that each helmet is fit for ITS purpose, each helmet has to reduce the risk that IT will be exposed to and do so without increasing any other risks. Can you honestly say that a motorbike helmet will do this in an aviation environment.
Happy flying guys, and take care.

[chiefedge]

here is 1 reason to wear a helmet

Although this was a military accident the picture paints a thousand words. A headset would not have been of much use here. The crewman was banged up but suffered no long term head injury. You just never know where your head will end up once the aircraft stops moving.

[UnDies]

Its a must!!

A helmet saved my flying career!! It should be compulsory not matter what type of operation!!