Southern California fires spreading rapidly (Firefighting photographs)
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San Jose Mercury News report
Grounded crew escapes fire as flames skirt crippled helicopter
RANCHO CUCAMONGA, Calif.
RANCHO CUCAMONGA, Calif.
- Helicopter pilot Mike Roederer and his crew fight fires from the sky, but on Thursday night they were on the ground with their disabled chopper in the path of a wildfire.
Roederer, 46, who was sleeping in a nearby trailer to safeguard the aircraft, awoke to the sight of flames coming down a mountain toward him.
He quickly grabbed his cell phone and called his crew.
"Hurry up and get over here. The fire's coming and I've got to get this helicopter out of here," he told them.
A day earlier, the men had been hauling water in the Bell 214-B1 heavy-lifter. But a blown hydraulic line forced them to land on a rise in an open field.
As thousands of people fled the flames that night, Roederer and his crew went to work trying to save the helicopter.
The first thing Roederer had to do was move a 4,000-gallon fuel truck parked nearby. It had been brought in as part of the maintenance effort on the disabled chopper.
"I got in it and drove it out to the freeway" about a mile away, he said.
Roederer's fellow crew members - co-pilots Greg Smith and mechanic A.J. Massei - arrived and gave him a lift back in a pickup truck.
"We drove past all the fire trucks and firefighters. They kept telling us to stop. but we had to get to the helicopter," said Massei, 32, of Ureka.
Smith, 35, of Pine Grove, said they parked as close as they could then ran to the aircraft. They got within 20 feet.
"The flames were coming over the road, covering it," Smith said. "At that point we knew we weren't going to get it started and we had to get out of there."
Massei said the three men, clad only in T-shirts and shorts, turned and ran toward the pickup, passing Roederer's trailer, which was engulfed in flames.
"The smoke was so bad, we couldn't breathe too good," he said. "We had to get out of there."
The three watched the flames burn from the safety of a fire line.
"We were frustrated and heartbroken," Massei said. "I have two kids, but this my baby."
As the smoke started to clear, Massei said, they could still see the blades of the helicopter. "The fire came through, the smoke cleared and here it was sitting. It made it through," said Smith, shaking his head.
Its exterior was blackened by the heat, but the chopper was still in one piece and would fly again.
"If we had landed it anywhere else out here, it would be gone," Roederer said about the open landing area.
Smith said he hopes to stay in the air the next time he encounters such a blaze. "The fire is not supposed to be this close to us," he said.
The Jackson-based Helimax Corp. helicopter was under contract with the U.S. Forestry Service to fight wildfires.
Roederer, 46, who was sleeping in a nearby trailer to safeguard the aircraft, awoke to the sight of flames coming down a mountain toward him.
He quickly grabbed his cell phone and called his crew.
"Hurry up and get over here. The fire's coming and I've got to get this helicopter out of here," he told them.
A day earlier, the men had been hauling water in the Bell 214-B1 heavy-lifter. But a blown hydraulic line forced them to land on a rise in an open field.
As thousands of people fled the flames that night, Roederer and his crew went to work trying to save the helicopter.
The first thing Roederer had to do was move a 4,000-gallon fuel truck parked nearby. It had been brought in as part of the maintenance effort on the disabled chopper.
"I got in it and drove it out to the freeway" about a mile away, he said.
Roederer's fellow crew members - co-pilots Greg Smith and mechanic A.J. Massei - arrived and gave him a lift back in a pickup truck.
"We drove past all the fire trucks and firefighters. They kept telling us to stop. but we had to get to the helicopter," said Massei, 32, of Ureka.
Smith, 35, of Pine Grove, said they parked as close as they could then ran to the aircraft. They got within 20 feet.
"The flames were coming over the road, covering it," Smith said. "At that point we knew we weren't going to get it started and we had to get out of there."
Massei said the three men, clad only in T-shirts and shorts, turned and ran toward the pickup, passing Roederer's trailer, which was engulfed in flames.
"The smoke was so bad, we couldn't breathe too good," he said. "We had to get out of there."
The three watched the flames burn from the safety of a fire line.
"We were frustrated and heartbroken," Massei said. "I have two kids, but this my baby."
As the smoke started to clear, Massei said, they could still see the blades of the helicopter. "The fire came through, the smoke cleared and here it was sitting. It made it through," said Smith, shaking his head.
Its exterior was blackened by the heat, but the chopper was still in one piece and would fly again.
"If we had landed it anywhere else out here, it would be gone," Roederer said about the open landing area.
Smith said he hopes to stay in the air the next time he encounters such a blaze. "The fire is not supposed to be this close to us," he said.
The Jackson-based Helimax Corp. helicopter was under contract with the U.S. Forestry Service to fight wildfires.
Last edited by Heliport; 28th Oct 2003 at 08:01.
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ABC News Online report
Thousands of people were evacuated from their homes as a raging wildfire fanned by fierce winds crept into residential areas north-east of Los Angeles, officials said.
In less than 24 hours, the raging blaze had grown from around 3,000 acres to more than 12,000 acres as it raced across forest and brush land, fire officials said.
An army of more than 1,400 fire fighters backed by a flotilla of planes and helicopters were battling the inferno as it lapped around homes and forced the closure of two major freeways.
"Several thousand people have now been evacuated as the fire moves toward built up areas with erratic winds making its direction unpredictable," said Georgia Smith, fire information officer for the San Bernardino National Forest where the blaze is burning.
"Our major concern is that there a lot of homes around the fire. It's a high priority to us as we have houses threatened and lives potentially threatened," said fire spokesman Gil Sanchez.
By Friday afternoon, the fire had destroyed four houses, two outbuildings, six cars, a boat and a fire fighting helicopter that had been forced to land due to mechanical difficulties on Thursday, Ms Smith said.
Officials estimated the damage at $US1.7 million, with the flames showing no signs of abating.
Thousands evacuated as fires menace California homes
Thousands of people were evacuated from their homes as a raging wildfire fanned by fierce winds crept into residential areas north-east of Los Angeles, officials said.
In less than 24 hours, the raging blaze had grown from around 3,000 acres to more than 12,000 acres as it raced across forest and brush land, fire officials said.
An army of more than 1,400 fire fighters backed by a flotilla of planes and helicopters were battling the inferno as it lapped around homes and forced the closure of two major freeways.
"Several thousand people have now been evacuated as the fire moves toward built up areas with erratic winds making its direction unpredictable," said Georgia Smith, fire information officer for the San Bernardino National Forest where the blaze is burning.
"Our major concern is that there a lot of homes around the fire. It's a high priority to us as we have houses threatened and lives potentially threatened," said fire spokesman Gil Sanchez.
By Friday afternoon, the fire had destroyed four houses, two outbuildings, six cars, a boat and a fire fighting helicopter that had been forced to land due to mechanical difficulties on Thursday, Ms Smith said.
Officials estimated the damage at $US1.7 million, with the flames showing no signs of abating.
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Tell me, am I some sort of Nerd?
I found my self over the weekend watching and scanning for news of the fires, just to see if this Heli was safe or toast, I am happy that a pilot has his craft in one piece, but I beg the question, If he was going to crank it up and move it, could he not have flown it out of danger originally??
Would have saved my kids laughing at me!
I found my self over the weekend watching and scanning for news of the fires, just to see if this Heli was safe or toast, I am happy that a pilot has his craft in one piece, but I beg the question, If he was going to crank it up and move it, could he not have flown it out of danger originally??
Would have saved my kids laughing at me!
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CNN.com
Wildfires engulfing huge swaths of Southern California have killed at least 13 people and sent tens of thousands seeking refuge.
The state's deadliest blazes in more than a decade raged through areas as far north as Simi Valley in Ventura County, east to San Bernardino County and south to San Diego County -- scorching more than 300,000 acres of earth.
Weather forecasts indicate more hot and dry conditions that will mix with the Santa Ana winds and could fan the flames that have reached 100 feet tall in places.
President Bush declared four Southern California counties major disaster areas Monday, opening the way for federal dollars for governments, businesses and people affected by the fires.
The president's order covers Los Angeles, San Bernardino, San Diego and Ventura counties, according to The Associated Press.
California Gov. Gray Davis, who has declared states of emergency in those counties, activated the National Guard to help with disaster relief.
More than 8,000 firefighters were trying to contain at least 10 fires in the region early Monday. But Dallas Jones, director of the Governor's Office for Emergency Services, said most of the fires were less than 20 percent contained, and some weren't contained at all.
The fires have destroyed about 700 homes, according to The Associated Press, scorched more than 300,000 acres and left tens of thousands in houses without electricity.
California wildfires wreak havoc
Wildfires engulfing huge swaths of Southern California have killed at least 13 people and sent tens of thousands seeking refuge.
The state's deadliest blazes in more than a decade raged through areas as far north as Simi Valley in Ventura County, east to San Bernardino County and south to San Diego County -- scorching more than 300,000 acres of earth.
Weather forecasts indicate more hot and dry conditions that will mix with the Santa Ana winds and could fan the flames that have reached 100 feet tall in places.
President Bush declared four Southern California counties major disaster areas Monday, opening the way for federal dollars for governments, businesses and people affected by the fires.
The president's order covers Los Angeles, San Bernardino, San Diego and Ventura counties, according to The Associated Press.
California Gov. Gray Davis, who has declared states of emergency in those counties, activated the National Guard to help with disaster relief.
More than 8,000 firefighters were trying to contain at least 10 fires in the region early Monday. But Dallas Jones, director of the Governor's Office for Emergency Services, said most of the fires were less than 20 percent contained, and some weren't contained at all.
The fires have destroyed about 700 homes, according to The Associated Press, scorched more than 300,000 acres and left tens of thousands in houses without electricity.
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Sad as it is, it will happen again in the same place in anywhere from 5-10 years. Same as the Landslides in Malibu... The area is overpopulated and caution is not taken by developers.
As soon as the brush grows back, the houses will be rebuilt and sometime around this part of the year you will read about it again....
Its all about Money......
As soon as the brush grows back, the houses will be rebuilt and sometime around this part of the year you will read about it again....
Its all about Money......
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If anyone is interested the yellow and blue machines are the Super 205s and are operated by the Ventura County Sheriffs Dept and based at Camarillo Airport.
P.S. Rialto Airport is home to the following aircraft today according to one of my readers:
6 S-64s
1 S-61
6 Bell 212s
2 AS350s
2 JetRangers
P.S. Rialto Airport is home to the following aircraft today according to one of my readers:
6 S-64s
1 S-61
6 Bell 212s
2 AS350s
2 JetRangers
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NBC-San Diego
San Diego is suffering particularly badly, overwhelmed local firefighters not knowing if or when they will get any help. Firecrews were supported by only nine airplanes and one helicopter Sunday.
Many of the county's resources had been called to San Bernardino and Los Angeles counties last week to fight big wildfires raging in those areas. Under the CDF's mutual assistance system, those resources cannot be released back to San Diego until they are no longer needed.
State officials have designated the San Diego fires the most important in the state, he said. Fire crews and air tankers will be sent here as soon as they become available, but that probably won't happen Monday, Bowman (San Diego Fire Chief) said.
When asked for a containment estimate, Bowman said, "The only place you could say there is containment is where the fire has already burned." "Our hope is that the winds stay down," Bowman said. "If the winds kick up, there's no telling what's going to happen."
--------------------
The California fires seem to have been started by arsonists. New fires were sparked when embers were blown by fierce Santa Ana winds, with gusts up to 70 mph.
Bert
The developers meet the demand. I can't criticise that - if I had my time over, I'd be living there not here. Southern California is the nearest I've found to the perfect place to live, and San Diego is the jewel in the crown.
San Diego pictures
It couldn't have happened at a worse time of year for San Diego, they haven't had any measurable rain for about six months.
Scripps Ranch development
Traffic and fire on the I-15
East County (not one of the expensive areas)
======================
Firefighting in LA (120+ miles N of San Diego)
San Diego is suffering particularly badly, overwhelmed local firefighters not knowing if or when they will get any help. Firecrews were supported by only nine airplanes and one helicopter Sunday.
Many of the county's resources had been called to San Bernardino and Los Angeles counties last week to fight big wildfires raging in those areas. Under the CDF's mutual assistance system, those resources cannot be released back to San Diego until they are no longer needed.
State officials have designated the San Diego fires the most important in the state, he said. Fire crews and air tankers will be sent here as soon as they become available, but that probably won't happen Monday, Bowman (San Diego Fire Chief) said.
When asked for a containment estimate, Bowman said, "The only place you could say there is containment is where the fire has already burned." "Our hope is that the winds stay down," Bowman said. "If the winds kick up, there's no telling what's going to happen."
--------------------
The California fires seem to have been started by arsonists. New fires were sparked when embers were blown by fierce Santa Ana winds, with gusts up to 70 mph.
Bert
The developers meet the demand. I can't criticise that - if I had my time over, I'd be living there not here. Southern California is the nearest I've found to the perfect place to live, and San Diego is the jewel in the crown.
San Diego pictures
It couldn't have happened at a worse time of year for San Diego, they haven't had any measurable rain for about six months.
Scripps Ranch development
Traffic and fire on the I-15
East County (not one of the expensive areas)
======================
Firefighting in LA (120+ miles N of San Diego)
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 28th Oct 2003 at 17:34.
Gatvol
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flying lawyer writes:"Bert
The developers meet the demand. I can't criticise that - if I had my time over, I'd be living there not here. Southern California is the nearest I've found to the perfect place to live, and San Diego is the jewel in the crown."
I have to agree on that, as I said its all about money. This set of fires is the worst I have seen in my lifetime and my relatives came to California in the 1850s.
Not enough Real Estate, loose contols on building, and folks who dont want to destroy their pretty views.. Look at some of those homes in the pictures, little Clearance from a non native tree and brush.. Those Bay trees are extremely good fuel for fires.
Im sure once all is said and done Lawyers will not need to be looking for work for a few years.
And all our Insurance rates will go through the roof......
The developers meet the demand. I can't criticise that - if I had my time over, I'd be living there not here. Southern California is the nearest I've found to the perfect place to live, and San Diego is the jewel in the crown."
I have to agree on that, as I said its all about money. This set of fires is the worst I have seen in my lifetime and my relatives came to California in the 1850s.
Not enough Real Estate, loose contols on building, and folks who dont want to destroy their pretty views.. Look at some of those homes in the pictures, little Clearance from a non native tree and brush.. Those Bay trees are extremely good fuel for fires.
Im sure once all is said and done Lawyers will not need to be looking for work for a few years.
And all our Insurance rates will go through the roof......
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Can't be the fault of the arsonists. It must be the developers for building without turning everything into concrete, and the city for not having enough codes, and the homeowners for living there. Get real. Let's stop blaming the rape victim for the rape.
Sadly, arsonists pick this time each year as it is dry, there are winds, and this year inparticular is very bad as drought has killed 3 out of 4 trees in the forests in San Bernardino and Riverside counties.
It was only a matter of time this year. With California virtually broke, this will hurt the economy even more, and more lives will be lost before this is over.
Sadly, arsonists pick this time each year as it is dry, there are winds, and this year inparticular is very bad as drought has killed 3 out of 4 trees in the forests in San Bernardino and Riverside counties.
It was only a matter of time this year. With California virtually broke, this will hurt the economy even more, and more lives will be lost before this is over.
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Well from someone based just North of San Diego.......
We are about 20 miles from the fires and located on the coastline. At present the visibility is about 3/4 of a mile in smoke - no flying today.
Luckily the winds are starting to die down and the humidity is set to rise again.
As far as fighting the fires in San Diego go it spread alarmingly fast, and frankly caught everyone off guard. Unfortunatley the majority of fire crews were up North fighting the fires in San Bernadino. The San Digo fire fighting helicopter was deemed a waste of money two weeks ago, so was sent away (not that one aircraft would have a difference - but every little helps). By the time any fire crews were brought back in the damage was done.
The one fact that I don't understand is that San Diego has one of the largest concentrations of military helicopters around. Bases such as Miramar, Pendleton, North Island have a huge number of CH46's, 53's, Blackhawks, Hueys etc sitting around doing nothing, along with their pilots. What politics dictate that they are not airborne? Or is it simply that they do not have the right equipment?
We are about 20 miles from the fires and located on the coastline. At present the visibility is about 3/4 of a mile in smoke - no flying today.
Luckily the winds are starting to die down and the humidity is set to rise again.
As far as fighting the fires in San Diego go it spread alarmingly fast, and frankly caught everyone off guard. Unfortunatley the majority of fire crews were up North fighting the fires in San Bernadino. The San Digo fire fighting helicopter was deemed a waste of money two weeks ago, so was sent away (not that one aircraft would have a difference - but every little helps). By the time any fire crews were brought back in the damage was done.
The one fact that I don't understand is that San Diego has one of the largest concentrations of military helicopters around. Bases such as Miramar, Pendleton, North Island have a huge number of CH46's, 53's, Blackhawks, Hueys etc sitting around doing nothing, along with their pilots. What politics dictate that they are not airborne? Or is it simply that they do not have the right equipment?
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Military helicopter to fight fires...
There are several legal and constitutional issues with military helicopters being used for fire fighting (even if it seems like common sense). First, the Defense Department doesn't have that mission assigned. That means that military pilots are not funded for that mission; therefore, they aren't trained for that mission. Second, most pilots have a priority mission already (i.e. in some kind of rotation to overseas forward areas in Iraq, Afganistan, etc). Thirdly, only the National Guard can be called on by the Governor of the State to provide this type of assistance. I doubt the Aviation Brigades in the National Guard have many aircraft of that type capable of this task anyway. Federal troops can only be used if Martial Law is declared under some kind of Federal emergency. Here is a summary between National Guard and Reserves/Active Military; I hope this makes sense (and why it's important)...
Army National Guard - These are State militia, and the commanding general is actually the Governor of the state. As a State militia, they are the ONLY military folks that have the consitutional ability to use police powers with cilivians (except Coast Guard). The bottom line is, in case of civil unrest or State emergency, these are the ONLY folks that can provide humanitarian assitance or to engage civilians with any kind of force (Posse Comitatus). In addition, they are also part of the National Command Authority's security plans for defense and combat support.
Army Reserves/Active Army - These are Federal troops, and the Reservists are designated as "on-call" to augment the Active component. The constitution PROHIBITS federal troops from ANY civil or police action whatsoever (Posse Comitatus). The only exception is if a Federal emergency is declared and Martial law is SPECIFICALLY implemented. An example would be when Hurricane Andrew hit Florida several years ago. After weeks of trouble with looters and badly needed logistical and medical support, Federal soldiers were temporarily given these powers and that portion of the State was under Martial law (that means even the Governor had no power in that area). In history, this has happened very few times. Usually everything you hear and see on TV is the National Guard. Generally, Reservists are activated to supported the Regular Army (i.e. go and help in Iraq).
Army National Guard - These are State militia, and the commanding general is actually the Governor of the state. As a State militia, they are the ONLY military folks that have the consitutional ability to use police powers with cilivians (except Coast Guard). The bottom line is, in case of civil unrest or State emergency, these are the ONLY folks that can provide humanitarian assitance or to engage civilians with any kind of force (Posse Comitatus). In addition, they are also part of the National Command Authority's security plans for defense and combat support.
Army Reserves/Active Army - These are Federal troops, and the Reservists are designated as "on-call" to augment the Active component. The constitution PROHIBITS federal troops from ANY civil or police action whatsoever (Posse Comitatus). The only exception is if a Federal emergency is declared and Martial law is SPECIFICALLY implemented. An example would be when Hurricane Andrew hit Florida several years ago. After weeks of trouble with looters and badly needed logistical and medical support, Federal soldiers were temporarily given these powers and that portion of the State was under Martial law (that means even the Governor had no power in that area). In history, this has happened very few times. Usually everything you hear and see on TV is the National Guard. Generally, Reservists are activated to supported the Regular Army (i.e. go and help in Iraq).
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There seems to a strong basis for the suspicion that some of the fires were started by arsonists.
There was a coordinated arson attack last month in which four homes under construction were destroyed and two others damaged. One of several banners found at the sites in north San Diego read: "Development destruction. Stop raping nature. The ELFs are angry."
ELF stands for Earth Liberation Front
a lunatic criminal environmentalist group that admits dozens of acts of arson and vandalism, including a $50 million fire that destroyed a residential development in San Diego in early August.
There was a coordinated arson attack last month in which four homes under construction were destroyed and two others damaged. One of several banners found at the sites in north San Diego read: "Development destruction. Stop raping nature. The ELFs are angry."
ELF stands for Earth Liberation Front
a lunatic criminal environmentalist group that admits dozens of acts of arson and vandalism, including a $50 million fire that destroyed a residential development in San Diego in early August.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 29th Oct 2003 at 00:54.
Greetings from San Diego or should I say from Dantes inferno...
I am located in Rancho Bernardo, about as far north on I15 as you can go and still be in city limits of San Diego. Roughly equal distant between the valley center fire to the north and the ceder fire to the south. The smoke is everywhere, which makes it hard to discern where the fires are. I am trying not to venture too far from home to honor requests not to clog the streets. This leaves me getting my news the same as you, the TV. I am not seeing much of the air support other than transiting aircraft. The tempatures have started to cool as the winds blow in from the Pacific rather from the desert. This is helping some and hurting others. Have seen a number of fire officials say that the onshore winds will now push the fire twords previously untouched areas. The fire in North county near Escondido has started a southern fork and is burning slowly twords the San Diego wild animal park. This is a world class facility and its loss would be unthinkable. The last numbers I saw on the tube, in the whole of socal, 1500 homes gone, approaching 600,000 acres burned. 3/4 the size of the state of Rhode Island. Work was very understanding about me not leaving on a four day trip. There are a number of pilots that I have been unable to contact who live in affected areas. I can get the answering machine on all but one of them. Wife is a teacher, at least two of here co workers have lost homes or barns.
As far as the poster who commented on Posse commitatus, I don't know if that applies to non law enforcement activities. The military had committed C130s with the MAFFs equipment. The 130s are I believe a AFR componant, not guard. I stand to be corrected of course.To the best of my knowledge martial law has not been enacted, I imagine that would be all over the news if it had I myself was involved in bucket ops in the early 90s while living in Hawaii. As perhaps mentioned already, a law from the depression era days of the 30's may be the culprit. In an attempt to keep people employed civil assets must be used prior to military capabilities. This may have worked in the 1930s and still has some application today, but not at the expense of safety. I can't imagine the author of that legislation could imagine a broad based law such as that would hinder fire fighting operations 70 years later.
As far as the origin of the San Diego fires, seems it was a lost deer hunter in the moutains near Julian who started a fire to signal searchers. You have to feel for the guy, lost without food or water in the sticks. I don't know as I would have done anything different than he did.
I am located in Rancho Bernardo, about as far north on I15 as you can go and still be in city limits of San Diego. Roughly equal distant between the valley center fire to the north and the ceder fire to the south. The smoke is everywhere, which makes it hard to discern where the fires are. I am trying not to venture too far from home to honor requests not to clog the streets. This leaves me getting my news the same as you, the TV. I am not seeing much of the air support other than transiting aircraft. The tempatures have started to cool as the winds blow in from the Pacific rather from the desert. This is helping some and hurting others. Have seen a number of fire officials say that the onshore winds will now push the fire twords previously untouched areas. The fire in North county near Escondido has started a southern fork and is burning slowly twords the San Diego wild animal park. This is a world class facility and its loss would be unthinkable. The last numbers I saw on the tube, in the whole of socal, 1500 homes gone, approaching 600,000 acres burned. 3/4 the size of the state of Rhode Island. Work was very understanding about me not leaving on a four day trip. There are a number of pilots that I have been unable to contact who live in affected areas. I can get the answering machine on all but one of them. Wife is a teacher, at least two of here co workers have lost homes or barns.
As far as the poster who commented on Posse commitatus, I don't know if that applies to non law enforcement activities. The military had committed C130s with the MAFFs equipment. The 130s are I believe a AFR componant, not guard. I stand to be corrected of course.To the best of my knowledge martial law has not been enacted, I imagine that would be all over the news if it had I myself was involved in bucket ops in the early 90s while living in Hawaii. As perhaps mentioned already, a law from the depression era days of the 30's may be the culprit. In an attempt to keep people employed civil assets must be used prior to military capabilities. This may have worked in the 1930s and still has some application today, but not at the expense of safety. I can't imagine the author of that legislation could imagine a broad based law such as that would hinder fire fighting operations 70 years later.
As far as the origin of the San Diego fires, seems it was a lost deer hunter in the moutains near Julian who started a fire to signal searchers. You have to feel for the guy, lost without food or water in the sticks. I don't know as I would have done anything different than he did.
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On one of the other helo forums someone made a comment not to blame the CDF, because the State took awya some of their funding. Here is my response to that.
______________
Your comment that CDF isnt too blame for the escalation of the San Diego fire is a crock of ****e.
I know for an absolute fact that when the initial fire started, ie: when the guy who fired the flare was picked up, the San Diego County Sheriff sent a helicopter with bucket to put out what was then a small fire about the size of half a football field. CDF Air Ops told the helicopter crew DO NOT go out there because of rules and regs, and this is documented on the Call Centre printouts. This was approx two hours before sunset. They were told that CDF would handle this in the morning. Well come the morning it is a hell of a lot bigger and has developed into what you see now.
The other issue is I can tell you three operators, one based in nereby Nevada, OAS approved, pilots carded etc etc who have called CDF Air Ops TEN (10) times saying that are available to help. Every single time they have been refused and told CDF have it under control. Now this is arrogance at its best. A lot of people are asking a lot of questions about the fires and especially why they have NO helicopter assets. The total number of helicopters being used in SD County are approx five, thats right five bloody helicopters, and with operators all over the place saying Hey we are available. And yet CDF dont want outside help.
Even though SD County was screaming for air assets the State had TWO MAFF equipped C-130s sitting on the ramp at McClellan but the Governor wouldnt release them to go and help. No wonder the State voted him out.
I hope CDF get all their funding cancelled and leave it up to private industry.
General consenus from those I have spoken to have said that CDF is dragging this out so they can use it to get more funding from the Government. If thats the case then those in charge need to be charged with murder and arson.
Just my two cents worth. I have a lot of friends in SD and am in regular touch with them, and this inaction by Government related agencies is pure self serving at its best.
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Your comment that CDF isnt too blame for the escalation of the San Diego fire is a crock of ****e.
I know for an absolute fact that when the initial fire started, ie: when the guy who fired the flare was picked up, the San Diego County Sheriff sent a helicopter with bucket to put out what was then a small fire about the size of half a football field. CDF Air Ops told the helicopter crew DO NOT go out there because of rules and regs, and this is documented on the Call Centre printouts. This was approx two hours before sunset. They were told that CDF would handle this in the morning. Well come the morning it is a hell of a lot bigger and has developed into what you see now.
The other issue is I can tell you three operators, one based in nereby Nevada, OAS approved, pilots carded etc etc who have called CDF Air Ops TEN (10) times saying that are available to help. Every single time they have been refused and told CDF have it under control. Now this is arrogance at its best. A lot of people are asking a lot of questions about the fires and especially why they have NO helicopter assets. The total number of helicopters being used in SD County are approx five, thats right five bloody helicopters, and with operators all over the place saying Hey we are available. And yet CDF dont want outside help.
Even though SD County was screaming for air assets the State had TWO MAFF equipped C-130s sitting on the ramp at McClellan but the Governor wouldnt release them to go and help. No wonder the State voted him out.
I hope CDF get all their funding cancelled and leave it up to private industry.
General consenus from those I have spoken to have said that CDF is dragging this out so they can use it to get more funding from the Government. If thats the case then those in charge need to be charged with murder and arson.
Just my two cents worth. I have a lot of friends in SD and am in regular touch with them, and this inaction by Government related agencies is pure self serving at its best.
Gatvol
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Dont go there Ned. I know most of those Players and they are pretty dedicated folks....I have a few pay stubs doing that work and am more than willing to introduce you to the crowd on your next visit.....
I am OAS carded also and not in SD. Its just not that simple. You dont just hop in a helo and start dumping water......
By the Way I still have that Cow waiting for the BBQ on your next trip....
I am OAS carded also and not in SD. Its just not that simple. You dont just hop in a helo and start dumping water......
By the Way I still have that Cow waiting for the BBQ on your next trip....
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Bert - Too late have already gone there. The issues are with the Southern area of command. The Northern and Eastern ones, operators have no problem with them at all.
I have watched this whole thing since Day 1 and you ask any operator that has dealt with the Southern Region, it is the biggest Cluster F**K every year when they try to deal with them. I just got two calls from operators I know within SD County and both have been trying to get their machines tasked onto one of the fires but CDF are still telling them they have it under control, come on give me a break. All you have to do is watch the news.
Yes some of the management are good, ie: the front line guys, but when you get up to the higher levels of management its a whole different ballgame, and I have seen that inept attitude in action there previously.
Here is a great quote from one of the pilots actually working on the fire:
"CDF are treating this fire like its a little grass fire in outback Nevada, not a 100,000 acre fire that has killed 20+ people and destroyed hundreds of houses."
Anyway my two cents worth. By the way take your cow down to SD and you might save a few bucks on the BBQ'ing.
I have watched this whole thing since Day 1 and you ask any operator that has dealt with the Southern Region, it is the biggest Cluster F**K every year when they try to deal with them. I just got two calls from operators I know within SD County and both have been trying to get their machines tasked onto one of the fires but CDF are still telling them they have it under control, come on give me a break. All you have to do is watch the news.
Yes some of the management are good, ie: the front line guys, but when you get up to the higher levels of management its a whole different ballgame, and I have seen that inept attitude in action there previously.
Here is a great quote from one of the pilots actually working on the fire:
"CDF are treating this fire like its a little grass fire in outback Nevada, not a 100,000 acre fire that has killed 20+ people and destroyed hundreds of houses."
Anyway my two cents worth. By the way take your cow down to SD and you might save a few bucks on the BBQ'ing.