Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)
Ex Mil RW too and have had a very varied, satisfying and full civilan career to date flying helicopters. But the world is very different today as is the helicopter industry and I could not recommend a RW flying career to anyone. If you are interested in flying then a fairly safe bet would be to train as a prospective airline pilot. Until the automatons take over it would be an interesting and fairly lucrative way to earn a living.
I have done my share of offshore flying but have managed to avoid it mostly. Why anyone would think that flying a fully-automated helicopter over hostile (generally cold) seas for hour after hour in a survival suit is a satisfying way to spend your working life is beyond me.
I have done my share of offshore flying but have managed to avoid it mostly. Why anyone would think that flying a fully-automated helicopter over hostile (generally cold) seas for hour after hour in a survival suit is a satisfying way to spend your working life is beyond me.
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So all this begs the question.... who will choose a RW career... 5-10-15 yrs down the line when the current North Sea / SAR /HEMS /NPAS cadre start to retire will there be any one suitably qualified to backfill??!!
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You clearly have a axe to grind with the ex military comments which are unfortunately unfair.
There is no free pass when it comes to licenses etc you never know one day you might be sitting next to a ex military pilot who could probably teach you a thing or two!
There is no free pass when it comes to licenses etc you never know one day you might be sitting next to a ex military pilot who could probably teach you a thing or two!
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Cost of a RW type rating and IR would cost more than a FW type and IR me thinks, could be wrong. So why would an ex mil fork out the same cost to enter a RW career that pays less and less chance of a Job... as this thread seems to indicate. I don’t buy the ex mil guys being a steady skills pool for the civ RW world any more.
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A lot of good opinions coming out which has pretty much firmed my mind up to FW.
Once completed are there any airlines that are more pro military (specifically RW convertees)? I am pretty much resigned to the fact I will have to sell my soul for 1 year to build some hours up.
Definitely. You can get an A320 or 737 (probably even 747) type rating for less than 30k EUR. A139/S92 on the other hand 50k+
Still doesn't mean you should have to pay for it yourself. Just the type rating in the fixed wing world is pretty much useless though... you'll need at least 500 hours on type for the good jobs, hence all the pay 2 fly scams :-(
Still doesn't mean you should have to pay for it yourself. Just the type rating in the fixed wing world is pretty much useless though... you'll need at least 500 hours on type for the good jobs, hence all the pay 2 fly scams :-(
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From the those I know who have left in the last year or two to peruse a FW Career ( those being Mil RW) all have landed jobs across the board with different Airlines ; including BA, but that one was 2 years ago when they hoovered up a lot of pilots. EasyJet did have a weighting system where they count RW hours at a reduced level- not sure if they still do this. Jet 2 seem pro military, Norwegian have taken a couple without the 500 HRs as well. Bottom line from what I’ve seen, get the licenses and cast the net wide-you’ll land a Job. The 500 HRs is about airmanship/captaincy and time in the air rather than the FW specific manual handling skills.
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Hello and late starter!
Hi everyone just to introduce myself, I have 30 hours on a piper pa38 but this was some time ago now and I am looking to get my Heli Licence, I’m now 31 so hope it’s not too late in life also I don’t have a rich family so I will be doing my best to take an hour a week and to at least get my ppl, i would like to go commercial in the end but of course money is restrictive! Anyway here it starts!
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I am in Malaga and have spoken a little to world aviation but they have been quite slow to respond, I’m guessing because I won’t be one of the guys with a big money payment to throw down
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I am in Malaga, I was talking with world aviation but they seem a little slow to respond I would guess because I’m not one of the guys with a load of money to put down but will continue to try and get the information I need
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This type of thread pops up every now and then and I always reply the same. A Helicopter license costs more than fixed wing, there are far fewer jobs and they pay less.... be absolutely sure this is the path you want to go down. Many people chuck 100-150k at getting a license with IR only to then be unemployed or earning not enough to pay off the debt. The O&G industry in the North Sea and offshore in general is only going one way, the only unknown is the time scale.
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I am not concerned about how much I can make as an income and I am sure I can get a job so for that reason I do appreciate the advice but I am determined to do it I just wish I can manage to fund it!
Valens.......it all depends...
is it your dream: Go for it. When I was an instructor , I had students from different backgrounds and ages and most of them said flying helicopters is the best thing they ever done. (and some of my students had an awesome life). With a PPL you can have great fun flying and improve your skills next to a normal day job.
is it for a career: 31 is not too old for any career, fixed wing or helicopters. But if you're aiming to get a good pay out of it, then fixed wing without a doubt.
The investment in a fixed wing career is cheaper, the outlook for a job is a lot better and the salary is a lot higher. (but flying is not like flying a heli of course).
The investment into a good heli career means PPL-CPL- twin type rating and IR (~100-125k) and then if you are lucky get a job with a very average salary. Which will grow of course but it will take ages to pay of the investment you made.
Having said that, some people get lucky and get a good job with minimum hours etc.
A different route is PPL-CPL-FI (~70k) where the investment is a bit less than the IR route but the salary you will get is also less. With a good company you might grow into different types including twin engines.
In short: are you in it for money, fly planes. is it what you love to do, fly heli's. Money can't make up for that smile you get on your face each day you fly a heli. Although I can imagine a BA captain looking at his bank account might create a bigger smile........
Best of luck with your choice.
is it your dream: Go for it. When I was an instructor , I had students from different backgrounds and ages and most of them said flying helicopters is the best thing they ever done. (and some of my students had an awesome life). With a PPL you can have great fun flying and improve your skills next to a normal day job.
is it for a career: 31 is not too old for any career, fixed wing or helicopters. But if you're aiming to get a good pay out of it, then fixed wing without a doubt.
The investment in a fixed wing career is cheaper, the outlook for a job is a lot better and the salary is a lot higher. (but flying is not like flying a heli of course).
The investment into a good heli career means PPL-CPL- twin type rating and IR (~100-125k) and then if you are lucky get a job with a very average salary. Which will grow of course but it will take ages to pay of the investment you made.
Having said that, some people get lucky and get a good job with minimum hours etc.
A different route is PPL-CPL-FI (~70k) where the investment is a bit less than the IR route but the salary you will get is also less. With a good company you might grow into different types including twin engines.
In short: are you in it for money, fly planes. is it what you love to do, fly heli's. Money can't make up for that smile you get on your face each day you fly a heli. Although I can imagine a BA captain looking at his bank account might create a bigger smile........
Best of luck with your choice.
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Well you seem determined enough. My general approach to this is to advise against it (helicopters in particular and aviation careers in general) - if the individual carries on anyway, they’re probably motivated (or stupid/crazy) enough to see it through.
If you can be scared off by stories of no jobs, poor salary, poor working conditions and increasingly joyless flying, then you probably don’t really have your heart in it anyway.
What I will say though, is don’t underestimate the impact of drones - they’ve already killed some “entry level” helicopter career paths. As technology improves they’ll kill more.
Passenger flying is a safe bet - if you’re putting people in the aircraft, you may as well put a couple of people who understand how things work (or blame) just in case something unforeseen happens (that’s airline flying these days effectively). With helicopters, the vast majority of pax flying is offshore oil and gas, and right now, that sector is still struggling.
So there you go. Best of luck with your endeavours.
BG.
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Hi Clear to Land
I started my PPL(H) at the age of 18 in the UK and 21 years later I’m still flying UK Onshore full time in a mix from R22 to AS355 and AW109 and most types in the middle.
Its been a lot of fun, interspersed with Instructing, Examining, Filming, Chief Pilot & 10 years for a private owner.
I would definitely do it again, but be prepared for lots of travel, in order to make a decent income. Honestly, the salaries UK Onshore are rubbish... seriously rubbish... but it depends on what you want out... it suited me at the time to have a lower salary, because I just lived what I did.
Now I’m a bit older with little pension, that enjoyment I'm starting to realise has cost me, and maybe I should have learnt to go FW initially, and found my way into a better paying Fixed Wing world, then done some Helis on the side.
I’d say do it.... it’s a blast. But don’t give up the airline career salary. Not in the beginning anyway. Reassess when you’ve done 3 years of Helis and have a better insight into the job market, remuneration and longevity of a career in the RW side of the industry.
I started my PPL(H) at the age of 18 in the UK and 21 years later I’m still flying UK Onshore full time in a mix from R22 to AS355 and AW109 and most types in the middle.
Its been a lot of fun, interspersed with Instructing, Examining, Filming, Chief Pilot & 10 years for a private owner.
I would definitely do it again, but be prepared for lots of travel, in order to make a decent income. Honestly, the salaries UK Onshore are rubbish... seriously rubbish... but it depends on what you want out... it suited me at the time to have a lower salary, because I just lived what I did.
Now I’m a bit older with little pension, that enjoyment I'm starting to realise has cost me, and maybe I should have learnt to go FW initially, and found my way into a better paying Fixed Wing world, then done some Helis on the side.
I’d say do it.... it’s a blast. But don’t give up the airline career salary. Not in the beginning anyway. Reassess when you’ve done 3 years of Helis and have a better insight into the job market, remuneration and longevity of a career in the RW side of the industry.
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Our fixed-wing flight department is adding a helicopter to the mix. We are looking at transitioning a few of our pilots to the helicopter. Looking for recommendations on flight schools that could do the helicopter add-on training for us.