Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: West Texas
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Mr. Vision,
Vsf's post was pretty much on the mark regarding employment here in the U.S. Quite frankly, I actively encourage the (newer) pilots working under me to go the other direction. I have no idea what the situation is like outside of the godd ol' US of A so the following may or may not be accurate in your part of the world but, in the majority of cases, the pay is indeed subpar, benefits subpar to non-existant, and retirement is almost nowhere to be found save a few 401Ks that are floating around which, if you manage to stay with the company long enough, may buy you a cup of coffee and a doughnut on your 65th birthday.
Any advice coming from this office would be: If you are sincere in your pursuit of helicopters focus on the corporate sector where you can put your skills to use in both fixed-wing and helicopters. The pay, benefits and retirement programs are usually a lot better, the equipment is usually better and the chances of putting your previous experience to use are much better.
I know a lot of helicopter pilots approaching the age of 50 (myself included) who are looking to bail in order to get some kind of retirement.
I'm just hoping to get out with enough to buy one of those three wheeled bicycles to ride back and forth to my retirement job as a greeter at the local Wal-Mart.
Good luck with whatever decision you choose to make!
Sign me:
Beautiful Loser
Vsf's post was pretty much on the mark regarding employment here in the U.S. Quite frankly, I actively encourage the (newer) pilots working under me to go the other direction. I have no idea what the situation is like outside of the godd ol' US of A so the following may or may not be accurate in your part of the world but, in the majority of cases, the pay is indeed subpar, benefits subpar to non-existant, and retirement is almost nowhere to be found save a few 401Ks that are floating around which, if you manage to stay with the company long enough, may buy you a cup of coffee and a doughnut on your 65th birthday.
Any advice coming from this office would be: If you are sincere in your pursuit of helicopters focus on the corporate sector where you can put your skills to use in both fixed-wing and helicopters. The pay, benefits and retirement programs are usually a lot better, the equipment is usually better and the chances of putting your previous experience to use are much better.
I know a lot of helicopter pilots approaching the age of 50 (myself included) who are looking to bail in order to get some kind of retirement.
I'm just hoping to get out with enough to buy one of those three wheeled bicycles to ride back and forth to my retirement job as a greeter at the local Wal-Mart.
Good luck with whatever decision you choose to make!
Sign me:
Beautiful Loser
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
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I think you must have a dream,I had too and after some hard work I had my PPL(H) every time I fly a Heli it gives me the same feeling as when I first went solo, I did'nt give up , so I say to you if indeed you have that dream, grab it and keep hold, some of the chaps who have answered are very positive in saying ther aint much money in it, well maybe your not after the money, why not get your ticket and set up your own little charter service, with a good B206, but keep your day job, just in case they all are dead right!
Keep us all informed of how you go on, it would be nice to see a dream realised by someone who dont have to prove anything, Good Luck.
My Regards
Keep us all informed of how you go on, it would be nice to see a dream realised by someone who dont have to prove anything, Good Luck.
My Regards
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Hey, B.Loser:
Gimmee one of those Wal-Mart applications, please. I dunno if this fixed wing career is going to work out (yet, but I'm doing my best...), and the guys at the blood bank won't buy any more pints from me. Hard to trade in my great photo album (rotary wing adventures) for a mortgage or orthodontics for the dependents.
If I was a rich, or even well to do, airline pilot, I'd buy me a Bell 47 to tinker with on weekends. It would scratch the rotary urge and the $65K or so it cost would be chump change compared to the forsaken earnings stream of a f/w to r/w shift.
And, when it's yer own toy, they don't tell you to fly that single engine bird at night...over mountains...in marginal weather...
Gimmee one of those Wal-Mart applications, please. I dunno if this fixed wing career is going to work out (yet, but I'm doing my best...), and the guys at the blood bank won't buy any more pints from me. Hard to trade in my great photo album (rotary wing adventures) for a mortgage or orthodontics for the dependents.
If I was a rich, or even well to do, airline pilot, I'd buy me a Bell 47 to tinker with on weekends. It would scratch the rotary urge and the $65K or so it cost would be chump change compared to the forsaken earnings stream of a f/w to r/w shift.
And, when it's yer own toy, they don't tell you to fly that single engine bird at night...over mountains...in marginal weather...
I know many operators don't have a 'minimum insurance requirement' for hours, they just have to deem you suitable to fly their aircraft safely. I know pilots who have trained up through their Bell 47's or Robinsons and have gotten a job flying Jetrangers in the UK with 200 helicopter hours, and about 20 or so Turbine.
If you can get your CPL(H), Turbine conversion and just build a few more hours, I think, with the responsible head you must have, you will find yourself employment. - Good luck !
If you can get your CPL(H), Turbine conversion and just build a few more hours, I think, with the responsible head you must have, you will find yourself employment. - Good luck !
Being a jet pilot, you must have mirrored sunglasses......but to be a rotary pilot - you must have the mirrors on the inside! If you're going to cross that Dixie line, you would do well to wave goodbye to your past lifestyle (that's presuming that you have not got huge savings and able to hold down a part-time fixed-wing job aswell).
Rotary flying is extremely rewarding, unfortunately, the employers know this and pay peanuts (relatively).
Oh!, and last bit of advice...don't make any cheques out to "PPSC"
Rotary flying is extremely rewarding, unfortunately, the employers know this and pay peanuts (relatively).
Oh!, and last bit of advice...don't make any cheques out to "PPSC"
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London, UK.
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Many thanks everyone for informative and often funny advice - some of you guys have given me an informative insight into the psyche of the pro helicopter pilot - naming no names B Sousa!
Special 25, thanks for the specific answer to my question about the insurance issue. The bottom line is the fear of spending many beer vouchers on the conversion to find there's no hope of a job with that level of rotary experience.
Once again, many thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply.
Special 25, thanks for the specific answer to my question about the insurance issue. The bottom line is the fear of spending many beer vouchers on the conversion to find there's no hope of a job with that level of rotary experience.
Once again, many thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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To Heli vision.
I admire such an intention to switch from the airlines to a job in the helicopter industry. Although I would suggest you take on a free-lance helicopter job. Since the helo industry oscillates in the payment quite tremendously.
Other than, I am an almost 3000hr pilot on rotorcraft, but would not give it up for a job in the airline industry. It´s like this. Whatever makes you happy in life you gotta go for if there is a niche or window opportunity for you. good luck
I admire such an intention to switch from the airlines to a job in the helicopter industry. Although I would suggest you take on a free-lance helicopter job. Since the helo industry oscillates in the payment quite tremendously.
Other than, I am an almost 3000hr pilot on rotorcraft, but would not give it up for a job in the airline industry. It´s like this. Whatever makes you happy in life you gotta go for if there is a niche or window opportunity for you.
good luck
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I did it
In 1999 I decided I would switch to fixed wing since I got a great opportunity to go fly for a fractional ownership program in Beechjets as SIC, so April 10 1999 I arrived at the FlighSafety/Raytheon training facility in Wichta, Kansas, when I arrived I had about 250 hrs TT in airplanes, all in nothing bigger than a Piper Seminole, I had also not flown an airplane in about 5 years at all.
Guess what? 10 days later I had my FSI diploma, and about a month later I had about 60 jet hours and felt as comfortable as if I had been doing all my life! The hardest part was learning to program those stupid FMS's, and keeping the plane clean! If you have considerable helicopter time, "flying" the jet will be really easy, you will have excellent "feel", be really smooth at the controls, make excellent landings.
The hardest things for me were:
1. Learning that you have to plan early, Beechjets do 100 NM in about 15 minutes, so things happen faster than you are accustomed to.
2. Controlling airspeed, those light jets could glide forever at 350 Kts, losing extra speed when you are in a descent is practically impossible sometimes.
3. Convincing other pilots it is possible to fly the airplane w/out autopilot, its boring though.
4. Getting used to boredom, I was used to start working after the takeoff in helis, in the plane its the other way around, Me and another pilot actually fell asleep flying from Seattle to Tucson one day at around 3 oclock in the morning, the overspeed horn woke us up!
PS: A year later I decide it was not for me and came back to helicopters, went to Africa to work for EHI
Guess what? 10 days later I had my FSI diploma, and about a month later I had about 60 jet hours and felt as comfortable as if I had been doing all my life! The hardest part was learning to program those stupid FMS's, and keeping the plane clean! If you have considerable helicopter time, "flying" the jet will be really easy, you will have excellent "feel", be really smooth at the controls, make excellent landings.
The hardest things for me were:
1. Learning that you have to plan early, Beechjets do 100 NM in about 15 minutes, so things happen faster than you are accustomed to.
2. Controlling airspeed, those light jets could glide forever at 350 Kts, losing extra speed when you are in a descent is practically impossible sometimes.
3. Convincing other pilots it is possible to fly the airplane w/out autopilot, its boring though.
4. Getting used to boredom, I was used to start working after the takeoff in helis, in the plane its the other way around, Me and another pilot actually fell asleep flying from Seattle to Tucson one day at around 3 oclock in the morning, the overspeed horn woke us up!
PS: A year later I decide it was not for me and came back to helicopters, went to Africa to work for EHI
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Ive got a UK ATPL (H) with an IR and around 6000 hours.
Last year I decided to go fixedwing and completed a CPL (A) and IR course.
The problem was that when I did my writtens (7years ago) I only did them to CPL Level, being all that was required in those days for us helicopter boys.
The CAA inform me that to upgrade my CPL (A) IR to a usefull ATPL, I need to do ALL 14 BLOODY JAR EXAMS. (not just extra nav subjects)
I would not mind, but this is the same as a man off the street who has never flown anything!!!
IS this fair, cos I cant believe that it would make me a better pilot.
Has anybody got any dispensations yet??
Last year I decided to go fixedwing and completed a CPL (A) and IR course.
The problem was that when I did my writtens (7years ago) I only did them to CPL Level, being all that was required in those days for us helicopter boys.
The CAA inform me that to upgrade my CPL (A) IR to a usefull ATPL, I need to do ALL 14 BLOODY JAR EXAMS. (not just extra nav subjects)
I would not mind, but this is the same as a man off the street who has never flown anything!!!
IS this fair, cos I cant believe that it would make me a better pilot.
Has anybody got any dispensations yet??
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Elvis, we have no chance to advise you if we do nit know your nationality.
Further, what exactly do you want to know?
eg; How difficult are FW exams, how is the CAA bureaucracy, is it conceptual difficulty you are speaking of?
Ask us specific questions and you might get some specific answers.
Further, what exactly do you want to know?
eg; How difficult are FW exams, how is the CAA bureaucracy, is it conceptual difficulty you are speaking of?
Ask us specific questions and you might get some specific answers.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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I seem to remember that while doing the work for the Military Helicopter Bridging courses the CAA mumbled something about a civilian ATPL(H) to ATPL(A) bridging course that would become available.. Of course the wheels of the CAA move in ever decreasing circles and nothing has yet come about! But we live in hope.
I also seem to remember the hover capabilities of the Piper Warrior were never quite as good as the S61. But never the less I tried!
I also seem to remember the hover capabilities of the Piper Warrior were never quite as good as the S61. But never the less I tried!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I'm going the other way at the moment. For the JAR CPL(H) the only ground school I've got to do at the moment is the principles of flight. The flying consists of 135hrs TT to get the CPL. Dispensation of 50 Hrs. There are currently NO bridging exams, but they may be around next year.
This is all dealing with the U.K CAA who have been worse than useless. When asked for a simple answer to a simple question. e.g "As a fixed wing instructor do I get a dispensation on the no. of hours required to get an FI rating on a heli?" So far I've had 5 different answers. They can't even agree on the wording of FCL 2.
Good luck with them and let us all know what they have said.
This is all dealing with the U.K CAA who have been worse than useless. When asked for a simple answer to a simple question. e.g "As a fixed wing instructor do I get a dispensation on the no. of hours required to get an FI rating on a heli?" So far I've had 5 different answers. They can't even agree on the wording of FCL 2.
Good luck with them and let us all know what they have said.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Fixed wing or Rotary - a plea for advice...?
Well I always wanted to fly for a living, missed my chance of joining the military unfortunately but now have the possibility of funding myself through personal flight training thanks to many years of hard work behind a desk. 
I always wanted to fly helicopters, just seems like a bit more fun, but from reading the various forums and advice from all the people on these forums over the last few months it looks like my money would be better invested in fixed wing.
It seems all rotary jobs are contract only from what I can gather (other than instructor, police, rescue etc and they are few and far between) and you have to be willing to travel far and wide to get them (im based in the UK presently).
So my question is, rotary at double the cost or fixed wing?
Any advice appreciated (sorry for the double post but this comes under wannabe but I wanted input from the rotar head community too) - Soz
I always wanted to fly helicopters, just seems like a bit more fun, but from reading the various forums and advice from all the people on these forums over the last few months it looks like my money would be better invested in fixed wing.
It seems all rotary jobs are contract only from what I can gather (other than instructor, police, rescue etc and they are few and far between) and you have to be willing to travel far and wide to get them (im based in the UK presently).
So my question is, rotary at double the cost or fixed wing?
Any advice appreciated (sorry for the double post but this comes under wannabe but I wanted input from the rotar head community too) - Soz
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Go for the Heli, it is more versatile and can land almost anywhere, I am but a lowly civvie and pleasure flyer, the younger and wiser jockeys who hover about in this forum will no doubt give you all the low down on spending a shedfull of cash to be queing up to find a job! Plus Heli pilots are special!!
HeliFirst
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With job prospects so poor at present stick to just flying for fun..... and keep the day job. Its obviously pays enough!!
Now if you just want to get rid of the cash and have fun locally then there's no better choice than spending it on Helicopters!!
Now if you just want to get rid of the cash and have fun locally then there's no better choice than spending it on Helicopters!!
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Downwind to rollYou did not mention your age. Anyway, stick to private flying. It is far more enjoyable, and will save you a lot of stressfull years to come looking for a job, and a lot more cash in the bank.
There are not many wealthly helo pilots on the commercial scene.
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Thanks for the negativety :)
Ok so Im seeing a pattern in these posts...let me see...yes...I see it now...you guys want the jobs for yourselves
Seriously though there must be some people out there making a living on rotary? Looks like I will have to fly planks then
My age 34
Seriously though there must be some people out there making a living on rotary? Looks like I will have to fly planks then
My age 34