Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the airline pilots in the audience I have a question that is not intended to offend but just answer a curiosity. For every 10,000 hours logged (including Captain or First Officer), how many hours involved hand flying the aircraft. Thank you.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's a difficult question to give a general answer to. It will very much depend on average sector length, average weather encountered, average airspace congestion etc.. On shorter sectors, you might never put the autopilot in.
From personal experience though, as a 737 pilot at Gatwick, and still very keen on manual flying, I'm guessing about 1/7th of logged hours were manually flown so about 1400 per 10,000. As a 747 FO out of Heathrow, with an average flight requiring three pilots, 2/3rd of the flight time is logged, but each FO only really gets to manually fly every other flight. Under such circumstances, I guess I average 1/100th of logged hours, so approximately 100 per 10,000. As a Captain in my company, it is basically double that, as Captains have negligible heavy sectors. In my opinion, the maintenance of manual handling ability within long haul flying is a huge skill in itself.
These are only rough estimates. It may be that I am either underestimating or overestimating how much manual flying I tend to do, but I'd say it's in about the right ballpark.
From personal experience though, as a 737 pilot at Gatwick, and still very keen on manual flying, I'm guessing about 1/7th of logged hours were manually flown so about 1400 per 10,000. As a 747 FO out of Heathrow, with an average flight requiring three pilots, 2/3rd of the flight time is logged, but each FO only really gets to manually fly every other flight. Under such circumstances, I guess I average 1/100th of logged hours, so approximately 100 per 10,000. As a Captain in my company, it is basically double that, as Captains have negligible heavy sectors. In my opinion, the maintenance of manual handling ability within long haul flying is a huge skill in itself.
These are only rough estimates. It may be that I am either underestimating or overestimating how much manual flying I tend to do, but I'd say it's in about the right ballpark.
Last edited by GS-Alpha; 3rd Apr 2013 at 07:44.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Conversion
Hello,
As an avid fan of real flying, and finding myself a bus driver I am researching converting my JAR atpl A to a CPL H as I have for many years dreamed of flying a helicopter.
I have read previous posts about conversion but many are dated and I wondered of I could trouble you for your opinion, on a fixed wing jet driver converting to hopefully work off shore with a view to go into SAR one day, as is the dream?
I don't here many stories of fixed wing going to rotary, so it would be great to here from someone who has done it.
My first fixed wing job was low level and I loved it, any help, stories or tips very much appreciated.
Regards,
David.
As an avid fan of real flying, and finding myself a bus driver I am researching converting my JAR atpl A to a CPL H as I have for many years dreamed of flying a helicopter.
I have read previous posts about conversion but many are dated and I wondered of I could trouble you for your opinion, on a fixed wing jet driver converting to hopefully work off shore with a view to go into SAR one day, as is the dream?
I don't here many stories of fixed wing going to rotary, so it would be great to here from someone who has done it.
My first fixed wing job was low level and I loved it, any help, stories or tips very much appreciated.
Regards,
David.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,149
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
A lot depends on age and whether they want to invest in you - if I'm not mistaken, 42 is the top age for that, but don't quote me.
Otherwise, not a problem, but if you're heading for the N Sea, you really need to study for the ATPL(H), which means five exams. PM me for the fine details.
phil
Otherwise, not a problem, but if you're heading for the N Sea, you really need to study for the ATPL(H), which means five exams. PM me for the fine details.
phil
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kenya
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi All,
Quick question, does having fixed wing and operational experience on fixed wing have any effect on job locations with Bristow after completion of training with them?
I part own and operate Vans in Kenya within the tourism sector but looking at helo's for the challenge. 4000hrs+ and Op's Director.
Rgds
Quick question, does having fixed wing and operational experience on fixed wing have any effect on job locations with Bristow after completion of training with them?
I part own and operate Vans in Kenya within the tourism sector but looking at helo's for the challenge. 4000hrs+ and Op's Director.
Rgds
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
North Sea
Hi everyone,
I've been reading about the reserves in different parts of the world, and it says here in North Sea there are reserves for 30-40 years. Do you know if that's the case? any link with information related would be appreciated.
I live in the US right now, and I'm considering getting my FAA CPL/IR/CFI, and eventually EASA CPL/IR. And honestly I've travelling for too long at this point, I just want some stability, and YESSS I know aviation, both rotary and fixed wing have nothing to do with stability haha. But I could see myself flying a couple of years here in the US, and then moving back to UK, Ireland, Norway or Holland. I'm also a CPL fixed wing.
Anyway, I want to be realistic with my expectations. I know this rotary world is smaller than fixed wing world. And being North Sea my goal, the world is even smaller. So when I say realistic I mean, do you think guys it's doable? but doable not like winning the lottery, wich I did once btw lol. Just working hard and being patient, getting the hours and then applaying a few times until someone likes your name and resume.
Money for training won't be a problem, and I'm 32 right now, european passport.
I love the idea of living in those places and doing that for a living, but as I said, I want to be realistic.
Thanks for taking the time to read me!.
Buenos vuelos!!
I've been reading about the reserves in different parts of the world, and it says here in North Sea there are reserves for 30-40 years. Do you know if that's the case? any link with information related would be appreciated.
I live in the US right now, and I'm considering getting my FAA CPL/IR/CFI, and eventually EASA CPL/IR. And honestly I've travelling for too long at this point, I just want some stability, and YESSS I know aviation, both rotary and fixed wing have nothing to do with stability haha. But I could see myself flying a couple of years here in the US, and then moving back to UK, Ireland, Norway or Holland. I'm also a CPL fixed wing.
Anyway, I want to be realistic with my expectations. I know this rotary world is smaller than fixed wing world. And being North Sea my goal, the world is even smaller. So when I say realistic I mean, do you think guys it's doable? but doable not like winning the lottery, wich I did once btw lol. Just working hard and being patient, getting the hours and then applaying a few times until someone likes your name and resume.
Money for training won't be a problem, and I'm 32 right now, european passport.
I love the idea of living in those places and doing that for a living, but as I said, I want to be realistic.
Thanks for taking the time to read me!.
Buenos vuelos!!
I wouldn't worry about the north sea running out of oil, they are finding new technology every year to tap oil supplies , they couldn't get previously.
You are in with just as much chance as everyone else.
If you are passionate about working in the north sea .....then apply....you have come thus far all ready
You are in with just as much chance as everyone else.
If you are passionate about working in the north sea .....then apply....you have come thus far all ready
I remember when I was in school 30 years ago that we were told that the NS oil was going to run out in 30 years time. Yet, they are still finding new fields and, like ersa says, they now have technology to recover oil and gas that was previously unreachable. Once the O&G runs out, there are going to be lots of big holes under the sea floor which they are going to want to fill with something ('carbon capture' has already been proposed and tested). Then once everything is finally depleted, they are going to have to decommission the hundreds of rigs out there. Which is going to take a a good few years.
So, personally, I wouldn't worry about North Sea flying ending within the span of our flying careers. The number of aircraft and pilots required is going to change (both up and down, generally in cycles) but there is going to be offshore flying in Europe for some time to come yet.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see, so one "problem" less when thinking about future haha.
I'm still trying to adapt to the rotary reality and size. For example Delta is hiring like 50 pilots every single month, so you really can see the movement, and how captains get retired, etc.....and that's only one of the majors, then you have the regionals hiring like crazy, etc.....but when you think about helis, in this case you have 3 companies, and it looks, or that's my idea, like really difficult to join any of them. Even if there are less rotary pilots, I can imagine is extremely difficult to land a job.
I'm still trying to adapt to the rotary reality and size. For example Delta is hiring like 50 pilots every single month, so you really can see the movement, and how captains get retired, etc.....and that's only one of the majors, then you have the regionals hiring like crazy, etc.....but when you think about helis, in this case you have 3 companies, and it looks, or that's my idea, like really difficult to join any of them. Even if there are less rotary pilots, I can imagine is extremely difficult to land a job.
"If" I was in your shoes...I would push for the fixed wing career , you seem established in the US...Not sure if you have your EASA Exams passed yet or your EASA IR...big expense
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a frozen ATPL, IR included. All EASA exams passed 6-7 years ago.
I know it would be easierto stay here in the US (got a greencard 2 years ago). But the truth is that family matters, parents, sister......and I'm like 2 flights and some 9.000km away from them, wich is too much after 7 years living abroad. Living in Europe means a direct flight 2-3h from home, that's way different.
So since flying is my dream, it's all about airplanes or helicopters, and if it was like here in the US, actually I'd fly both, wich I think is amazing.
Fixed wing T&C in EU are getting worse and worse, and apparently offshore is facing "good times", compared to airlines. I've been reading about rosters in N.Sea, and compared to Easyjet roster for example, they rock. Even if you get less salary, IMO quality of life looks better.
If I go fixed wing, then I'm assuming I'm gonna work for a crappy salary the next 5 years, until they consider me a senior F/O in a shinny jet. With helicopters, I'd still get crappy salaries for a couple of years here in USA as CFI, but next move wouldn't be so bad apparently.
I don't know. It just looks like the whole aviation bussiness is going to hell slowly
2-3 more years here in the US and then I want to move back to Europe, no matter hat country, but with some decent job, or at least a nice perspective for it. Maybe I just don't get it and times have changed, period.
I know it would be easierto stay here in the US (got a greencard 2 years ago). But the truth is that family matters, parents, sister......and I'm like 2 flights and some 9.000km away from them, wich is too much after 7 years living abroad. Living in Europe means a direct flight 2-3h from home, that's way different.
So since flying is my dream, it's all about airplanes or helicopters, and if it was like here in the US, actually I'd fly both, wich I think is amazing.
Fixed wing T&C in EU are getting worse and worse, and apparently offshore is facing "good times", compared to airlines. I've been reading about rosters in N.Sea, and compared to Easyjet roster for example, they rock. Even if you get less salary, IMO quality of life looks better.
If I go fixed wing, then I'm assuming I'm gonna work for a crappy salary the next 5 years, until they consider me a senior F/O in a shinny jet. With helicopters, I'd still get crappy salaries for a couple of years here in USA as CFI, but next move wouldn't be so bad apparently.
I don't know. It just looks like the whole aviation bussiness is going to hell slowly
2-3 more years here in the US and then I want to move back to Europe, no matter hat country, but with some decent job, or at least a nice perspective for it. Maybe I just don't get it and times have changed, period.
I can see your dilemma , So its your family issue thats tipping the balance.
I would still go for the Fixed wing option, and fly helicopters for fun, you will have the best of both worlds them.
Sometimes "the grass aint greener on the other side"
I would still go for the Fixed wing option, and fly helicopters for fun, you will have the best of both worlds them.
Sometimes "the grass aint greener on the other side"
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah it is. If it was only me I would stay in this country, with some crazy different aviation, and with the possibility of flying both things, that's awesome.
That's what some people tell me, that both worlds are "bad" with "good" things here and there, and that I should just go fixed, wich is gonna be way cheaper for me, rather than paying 60k or so for all the heli stuff.
Thanks for you advice!
That's what some people tell me, that both worlds are "bad" with "good" things here and there, and that I should just go fixed, wich is gonna be way cheaper for me, rather than paying 60k or so for all the heli stuff.
Thanks for you advice!
You could always have a look at this.
North Sea oil firm trial rig transfers by boat instead of helicopters - Local / News / Evening Express
North Sea oil firm trial rig transfers by boat instead of helicopters - Local / News / Evening Express
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that would be bad for the rotary world. how long would it take to transport the workers compared to helicopters?
that would affect everyone I guess, workers would have to sacrifice part of his time off due to increased transport time, right? or the oil companies would lose part of this time too.....
that would affect everyone I guess, workers would have to sacrifice part of his time off due to increased transport time, right? or the oil companies would lose part of this time too.....
Hi there,
I know Heli operators does not look much, if not at all, regarding the fixed wing experience ... But does it have some kind of " it depends " factors ?
I mean, of course if, as we read earlier this thread, one have 20 000 hrs 747 and want to long line in a Huey the next day, they may have big problems for sure.
But the young dynamic guy having 3 to 4000 hours of bush flying, in countries with mountains, jungles, bad Wx, rough strips and only " hands on " flying... couldn't this help lending a job from a fixed wing career ?
My goal is just to fly them equally, for a living, switching once a decade or something like that.
I'd be VERY interested to hear someone with the same wishes/experiences.
Happy new year everyone, fly safe !
I know Heli operators does not look much, if not at all, regarding the fixed wing experience ... But does it have some kind of " it depends " factors ?
I mean, of course if, as we read earlier this thread, one have 20 000 hrs 747 and want to long line in a Huey the next day, they may have big problems for sure.
But the young dynamic guy having 3 to 4000 hours of bush flying, in countries with mountains, jungles, bad Wx, rough strips and only " hands on " flying... couldn't this help lending a job from a fixed wing career ?
My goal is just to fly them equally, for a living, switching once a decade or something like that.
I'd be VERY interested to hear someone with the same wishes/experiences.
Happy new year everyone, fly safe !
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stick to fixed wing, make loads of money and fly helicopters for fun with your PPL-H
To get a CPL-H now is madness in my opinion, there are loads of highly experienced IR rated helicopter pilots struggling to get jobs and they have been for the last 2 years.
To get a CPL-H now is madness in my opinion, there are loads of highly experienced IR rated helicopter pilots struggling to get jobs and they have been for the last 2 years.
Cap804 should be your guide. I haven't read it specifically for helicopters, but to become an instructor on a PPL generally requires more hours than with a CPL, so I'd aim for that. I believe an IR conversion is 10 hours, but it has to be in a multi engine type, which requires an 8 hour course and 70 hours pic, making it very expensive.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are UK based I recommend you see any of the in-house NHS psychiatrists, they should be able to help you and they are free. You will need a referral from your General practitioner but if you explain what it is that you are trying to achieve (Fixed wing to rotary in todays market) I'm sure they will treat you as an urgent case.