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Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)

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Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)

Old 29th Feb 2012, 03:34
  #281 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Playing in the sand
Posts: 123
Reminds me of a former student, young guy from Alaska, who upon completion of his PPL had a look through the school's 141 syllabus. After seeing the course hours of 115, he was convinced that was the total time for a CPL. (what he failed to comprehend was 35 for ppl + 115 for cpl = the required 150 hrs.) No amount of explanation, including the requirements in the FARs would help. Not even a call to our friendly FAA inspector would change his mind. So he decides we are trying to rip him off, and heads down to Boatpix of all places.

So I run into him about a year later during a fuel stop, and I don't even say hello. The first words out of my mouth, " I was right, wasn't I?" His eyes went straight to the ground, shoulders slouched and he sheepishly replied, " Yea, you were right." And we proceeded to have a normal conversation after that.
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Old 1st Jul 2012, 11:54
  #282 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: keeps changing
Posts: 118
Commercial add on

Hi everyone.

I have a few questions that i hope you can help answer for me. im thinking of doing my Commercial helicopter add on. i got a commercial fixed wing with IR and been looking into some schools in the US as i hold a FAA license and still cant figure out whether you need to take the instrument add on or not.

some schools when i look at the break down of the commercial add on course it already has 5hrs instrument dual put in the course but then i speak to other schools they say no you need an instrument add on if you want to fly in IMC..

So do i need to also take the instrument add or are they trying to sell me another course that i don't need.???

another thing from what i understand and have heard from speaking to helicopter pilots not in the states but in other parts of the world is that an instrument rating in the rotary world wont do you any good for now unless you flying twin engine helicopters as you not permitted to fly single engine helos in IMC..

thanks very much for your time and look forward to seeing what you guys have to say.

safe flying
Clintonb is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2012, 12:54
  #283 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere along the ITCZ
Posts: 279
Needing or not an Instrument Helicopter rating is obviously up to you, you most definitely need one though to fly under IFR in that category and class as an Instrument Airplane rating won't be legal. It takes you 15 hours of dual Instrument instruction in a helicopter for your add-on rating, provided you already meet the other aeronautical experience requirements such as 50 hours x-country PIC. The reality of helicopter flying outside of the US is a bit different, but there's no such thing as a Helicopter Multi-Engine Instrument rating in the FAA system and you can still fly overseas using your FAA certificate so I wouldn't worry too much about the other guys are saying. Hope this helps!
Peter PanPan is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2012, 13:06
  #284 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North America
Posts: 20
You would need to do a helicopter Instrument add-on for the FAA. Budget for 25 hrs of training. Also a Comm add may take longer than the minimums.

Do you really need an IR(H)? R22, S300c, R44 and most B206 cannot fly in real IFR.

If you really are not going to do IFR in a heli a better use of the money woud be to get a CFI rating.

For the JAA, getting a multi-engine heli type rating and doing an FAA IR(H) to the JAA IR(H) conversion at minimum time woudl use uo $50,000 USD.
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Old 1st Jul 2012, 16:46
  #285 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 410
You do not need the instrument rating, however you will have to do the 5 hours of instrument training. It is part of the Part 61 requirement. This 5 hours is oriented toward helicopter instrument flight. The helicopter instrument add-on is 15 hours and that 5 hours counts toward your instrument add-on. Some parts of the world do require a helicopter instrument rating, like the North Sea. Plus some contracts require the pilots to be instrument rated even though they are flying a contract that is a VFR only contract, like seismic.
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Old 2nd Jul 2012, 15:00
  #286 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
Posts: 272
It is an "add on" if you already have flying experience to add it on to.

I have issue with those helicopter pilots/schools that think fixed wing experience doesn't count. That is snobbery!

Flying experience never subtracts. Time in the air in different weather conditions and types of aircraft and number of landings is a better measure than simply hours.

OOW heli cpl/glider/balloon/fixed wing CPL
outofwhack is offline  
Old 4th Jul 2012, 15:45
  #287 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: keeps changing
Posts: 118
Thanks for your advice guys really appreciate it.
been emailing schools and just weeding out the ones that are trying to sell me courses and more hours for no reason.
Just another thing has anyone gone to palm beach helicopters in florida and has any information on them or has any information on other helicopter training places in south florida that they recommend?
thanks again for the all your help.
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Old 19th Oct 2012, 05:56
  #288 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,779
You will be exempt some exams for the PPL(H), and probably between 5-10 hours on the flying. However, you could bridge straight to CPL(H) with the Performance, POF, Ops and AGK professional exams. PM me for details.

Then do the flying.

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Old 19th Oct 2012, 16:18
  #289 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: A long way from home with lots more sand.
Age: 51
Posts: 417
Wow-I am amazed that a thread I started 12 years ago is still running. FWIW I stuck with the planks (stability and financial security), have gone long haul (after short haul) and am a TRI on the B777. I still look up every time I see a helicopter, and once a year get my 'fix' in a 22 or a 47. I don't regret the decision, but am planning to leave my current job at 50 (6 years) and go back to RW to finish my career using my hands and feet again. Figure I will have 10-15 years of good fun helo flying, and won't have a mortgage to worry about (If the plan works )
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Old 15th Nov 2012, 18:54
  #290 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 2
EASA CPL(A) to CPL(H) Conversion

Can anyone tell me what the requirement is to convert my EASA CPL/IR(A) into a CPL(H) or ATPL(H). Thanks
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Old 15th Nov 2012, 20:09
  #291 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,779
Aside from the flying - for the CPL(H), take the POF, Perf, Ops and AGK exams. You should be exempt the IR. For the ATP, probably take all 14 exams but you'd best get a ruling from the CAA on that one as the rules seem to change every day. The CPL(H)/IR combination is no longer equivalent to the ATPL(H)


Last edited by paco; 15th Nov 2012 at 20:10.
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Old 15th Nov 2012, 21:26
  #292 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 352
From Subpart K to Appendix III to Part-FCL, and in addition to Paco's post:


1. The aim of the CPL(H) modular course is to train PPL(H) holders to the level of proficiency necessary for the issue of a CPL(H).

2. Before commencing a CPL(H) modular course an applicant shall be the holder of a PPL(H) issued in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention.

3. Before commencing the flight training the applicant shall:
(a) have completed 155 hours flight time as a pilot in helicopters, including 50 hours as PIC of which 10 hours shall be cross-country;

(b) have complied with FCL.725 and FCL.720.H if a multi-engine helicopter is to be used on the skill test.
4. An applicant wishing to undertake a modular CPL(H) course shall complete all the flight instructional stages in one continuous course of training as arranged by an ATO. The theoretical knowledge instruction may be given at an ATO that conducts theoretical knowledge instruction only.

5. The course shall comprise:
(a) theoretical knowledge instruction to CPL(H) knowledge level; and

(b) visual and instrument flying training.

6. An approved CPL(H) theoretical knowledge course shall comprise at least 250 hours of instruction.


7. An applicant shall demonstrate a level of knowledge appropriate to the privileges granted to the holder of a CPL(H).

8. Applicants without an IR shall be given at least 30 hours dual flight instruction, of which:
(a) 20 hours visual instruction, which may include 5 hours in a helicopter FFS or FTD 2,3 or FNPT II, III; and

(b) 10 hours instrument instruction, which may include 5 hours in at least a helicopter FTD 1 or FNPT I or aeroplane
9. Applicants holding a valid IR(H) shall be fully credited towards the dual instrument instruction time. Applicants holding a valid IR(A) shall complete at least 5 hours of the dual instrument instruction time in a helicopter.

10. Applicants without a night rating helicopter shall be given additionally at least 5 hours night flight instruction comprising 3 hours of dual instruction including at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation and 5 solo night circuits. Each circuit shall include a take-off and a landing.


11. The applicant for a CPL(H) shall have completed at least 185 hours flight time, including 50 hours as PIC, of which 10 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, including a VFR cross-country flight of at least 185 km (100 NM), in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made.

Hours as pilot-in-command of other categories of aircraft may count towards the 185 hours flight time, in the following cases:
(a) 20 hours in aeroplanes, if the applicant holds a PPL(A); or

(b) 50 hours in aeroplanes, if the applicant holds a CPL(A); or

(c) 10 hours in TMGs or sailplanes; or

(d) 20 hours in airships, if the applicant holds a PPL(As); or

(e) 50 hours in airships, if the applicant holds a CPL(As).

12. Upon completion of the related flying training and relevant experience, the applicant shall take the CPL(H) skill test.
Curtis E Carr is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 14:14
  #293 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nairobi
Age: 28
Posts: 7
Helicopter opportunities

Hi guys ,does anyone know of any helicopter sponsorship or companies that train helicopter pilots for contracts with them later.Am almost done with my ppl(H) and i want to continue with my cpl(H) but the training is quite expensive .any ideas please???
Boikal is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 16:25
  #294 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Norway
Posts: 97
If you manage to find someone who will pay for your training then make sure you keep it to yourself. There are probably a thousand others who would want the same.

The only thing I've heard of lately is Bristow who plan on offering 4 ppl a fully paid CPL(H) training with start next summer. Search this forum and you'll find the thread.

Else do like the rest of us, go to your bank and beg for money and then pay the lot yourself

EDIT: Bristow thing is only for UK citizens.

Last edited by DonQuixote23; 13th Dec 2012 at 16:26.
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 20:12
  #295 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nairobi
Age: 28
Posts: 7
helicopter opportunities

Hi rotor heads ,am new in this industry an really want to excel...am almost done with my ppl (h) and I want to finish my cpl (h) but the training is becoming expensive.IS there any other alternative apart from joining the army for me to excel am become a rotor man ?please anyone ..thank you
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 20:29
  #296 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: East of 20 E
Posts: 87
Out of interest what is wrong the military?

In Kenya you have the Army and Air Force and Police Air Wing offering flight training.
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Old 14th Dec 2012, 20:38
  #297 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nairobi
Age: 28
Posts: 7
I will have to work for them for around 10 years so that they can release me..that will be too long ,and especially now that the Kenya military and Kenya aviation helicopter industry is not that good ,with many accidents and trouble following them ..
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Old 15th Dec 2012, 18:22
  #298 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nairobi
Age: 28
Posts: 7
I have searched the school but its only for american and European citizens......I will continue search maybe i will find one,,
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Old 9th Jan 2013, 16:51
  #299 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 220
To the airline pilots in the audience I have a question that is not intended to offend but just answer a curiosity. For every 10,000 hours logged (including Captain or First Officer), how many hours involved hand flying the aircraft. Thank you.
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Old 3rd Apr 2013, 08:31
  #300 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 590
That's a difficult question to give a general answer to. It will very much depend on average sector length, average weather encountered, average airspace congestion etc.. On shorter sectors, you might never put the autopilot in.

From personal experience though, as a 737 pilot at Gatwick, and still very keen on manual flying, I'm guessing about 1/7th of logged hours were manually flown so about 1400 per 10,000. As a 747 FO out of Heathrow, with an average flight requiring three pilots, 2/3rd of the flight time is logged, but each FO only really gets to manually fly every other flight. Under such circumstances, I guess I average 1/100th of logged hours, so approximately 100 per 10,000. As a Captain in my company, it is basically double that, as Captains have negligible heavy sectors. In my opinion, the maintenance of manual handling ability within long haul flying is a huge skill in itself.

These are only rough estimates. It may be that I am either underestimating or overestimating how much manual flying I tend to do, but I'd say it's in about the right ballpark.

Last edited by GS-Alpha; 3rd Apr 2013 at 08:44.
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