Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)
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I know I am opening a can of worms here, but it's back to the hour building on a fixed wing to build up hours thing. I was informed by a very experienced FI that I could do my FAA PPL(A), convert it to a PPL(H) FAA and then build hours towards my CPL (H) on the American licence on a fixed wing aircraft. I could then convert that to the JAR licence (as I live in the UK) The big advantage of this, apart from having a dual licence, is that it should save me a lot of money hour building, as fixed wing are obviously cheaper. I know everyone is saying Heli is more expensive and all that, but I am 18, and every penny I can save helps.
My question is, one, is it even possible? And two, is it in anyway an advantage or am I better just getting stuck into the Heli training on the JAR?
Cheers,
Josh.
My question is, one, is it even possible? And two, is it in anyway an advantage or am I better just getting stuck into the Heli training on the JAR?
Cheers,
Josh.
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To fly helicopters professionally you need helicopter hours, you will not get a job with say 800 fixed-wing hours and 200 helicopter hours. You will be treated as a 200 hour guy. You just have to take the standard route.
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Thanks for your swift reply. Another quick question, is it easier to convert from the Euro licence to the American or vice versa? Everyone I ask seems to have a different answer.
Cheers,
Josh.
Cheers,
Josh.
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first solo
hello everyone
i am new to this section, i hold a jaa and an faa fixed wing atpl, although i have been always fascinated by helicopters. I would like to know how many hours it would normally take a fixed wing pilot to solo in a helicopter. If that is the right time to discontinue the training for a while and if based on your experience, what kind of maneuvers i could expect to accomplish is in , let's say, 10 hrs - takeoff, landing, hovering-?
Many thanks
baobab
i am new to this section, i hold a jaa and an faa fixed wing atpl, although i have been always fascinated by helicopters. I would like to know how many hours it would normally take a fixed wing pilot to solo in a helicopter. If that is the right time to discontinue the training for a while and if based on your experience, what kind of maneuvers i could expect to accomplish is in , let's say, 10 hrs - takeoff, landing, hovering-?
Many thanks
baobab
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I am not an instructor, but I was in the same position as you, ie. fairly high-time (~5000 hrs) FW pilot when I started helicopter lessons 
Took me some 8 hours of dual instruction to solo and these hours were spread over a period of approx. 9 months (not good, I know, ). Maneuvers covered during this time were:
- general handling
- hovering and hover maneuvers (ie. pedal turns, moving sideways, backawrds etc.)
- pickups/touchdowns
- accelerating and decelerating through ETL (quickstops, sort of)
- pattern work
- autorotations
- some off airport landings (but that was more of a bonus, rather than a requirement
)
Surprisingly, I have found hovering easier then expected - generally was able to maintain positive control of the helicopter from the very beginning (though for first 2 hours or so, it required a lot of concentration on my part and resulted in some sore muscles afterwards).
The harder part for me was to overcome some of the airplane habits, which have been deeply ingrained in me over the years and tended to kick-in especially in the later parts of approach and landing, eg.:
- getting used to higher flare heights (required to maintain tail rotor clearance)
- learning to push on the cyclic at the end of the flare (a big NO in an airplane)
- learning to maintain correct approach path/sight picture. Initially I tended to make my approaches like in an airplane, ie. aiming well below the intended touchdown point, keeping speed far into the approach and then having to perform a mighty flare to stop where I wanted to
However, all in all it was a blast and a great experience - so go for it if you can!
Took me some 8 hours of dual instruction to solo and these hours were spread over a period of approx. 9 months (not good, I know, ). Maneuvers covered during this time were:- general handling
- hovering and hover maneuvers (ie. pedal turns, moving sideways, backawrds etc.)
- pickups/touchdowns
- accelerating and decelerating through ETL (quickstops, sort of)
- pattern work
- autorotations
- some off airport landings (but that was more of a bonus, rather than a requirement
)Surprisingly, I have found hovering easier then expected - generally was able to maintain positive control of the helicopter from the very beginning (though for first 2 hours or so, it required a lot of concentration on my part and resulted in some sore muscles afterwards
). The harder part for me was to overcome some of the airplane habits, which have been deeply ingrained in me over the years and tended to kick-in especially in the later parts of approach and landing, eg.:
- getting used to higher flare heights (required to maintain tail rotor clearance)
- learning to push on the cyclic at the end of the flare (a big NO in an airplane)
- learning to maintain correct approach path/sight picture. Initially I tended to make my approaches like in an airplane, ie. aiming well below the intended touchdown point, keeping speed far into the approach and then having to perform a mighty flare to stop where I wanted to
However, all in all it was a blast and a great experience - so go for it if you can!
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Originally Posted by matalice
From CPL(A) to CPL(H) costs and training?
Hello
Im a ATPL(Frozen) UK JAA airplane licence holder.
A friend of mine runs a helicopter company and needs a pilot and since Im struggling to find work on aircraft I'm considering getting the CPL helicopter.
Can anyone advise me of what I need to do to get this licence please.
Many thanks in advance
Ps: Please dont reply with stuff like you need lots of money etc i know everything is expensive (Im a cpl holder)
Hello
Im a ATPL(Frozen) UK JAA airplane licence holder.
A friend of mine runs a helicopter company and needs a pilot and since Im struggling to find work on aircraft I'm considering getting the CPL helicopter.
Can anyone advise me of what I need to do to get this licence please.
Many thanks in advance
Ps: Please dont reply with stuff like you need lots of money etc i know everything is expensive (Im a cpl holder)
JR
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If you have ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge all you need is POF(H) on the theoretical knowledge side. A flight school should be able to confirm the rest.
Phil
Phil
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matalice,
Someone with a bare CPL(H) would normally have no chance of getting work, particularly in the current market. Most onshore flying will be done single pilot: for offshore an IR is essential.
Assuming your friend has an onshore operating company, you are presumably looking at single pilot flying. With a bare CPL(H) and a limited number of P1 hours you don't have much experience. As I say, normally you would not stand much chance at all of getting any work. Even if your friend favours you, there could certainly be problems with getting insurance. I suggest you check this before you spend money getting a helicopter licence. Although it is not fixed, companies often are looking for around 1,000 hrs for someone to take command of a commercial flight.
Perhaps even more significant than that, you need to appreciate that helicopters are different from aircraft: not just in how they fly, but how they are used. Broadly speaking (because they are more expensive) they will only get used when an aeroplane will not do the job. Helicopters are enormously flexible and an experienced pilot can do marvellous things with one. There is much more judgment needed to fly helicopters than aeroplanes. For example, helicopters are used to fly into private sites. These are places which are not controlled, don't have a licence and not been checked to the same extent as airports. No fire crew; no ATC. The pilot has to make the decision whether or not to use such a site and how to use it, with relatively limited help from anyone else.
You will need to gather training, experience and skill once you have your licence to become a satisfactory helicopter pilot. I hope your friend is prepared to spend the significant sums of money needed to help you do that.
Someone with a bare CPL(H) would normally have no chance of getting work, particularly in the current market. Most onshore flying will be done single pilot: for offshore an IR is essential.
Assuming your friend has an onshore operating company, you are presumably looking at single pilot flying. With a bare CPL(H) and a limited number of P1 hours you don't have much experience. As I say, normally you would not stand much chance at all of getting any work. Even if your friend favours you, there could certainly be problems with getting insurance. I suggest you check this before you spend money getting a helicopter licence. Although it is not fixed, companies often are looking for around 1,000 hrs for someone to take command of a commercial flight.
Perhaps even more significant than that, you need to appreciate that helicopters are different from aircraft: not just in how they fly, but how they are used. Broadly speaking (because they are more expensive) they will only get used when an aeroplane will not do the job. Helicopters are enormously flexible and an experienced pilot can do marvellous things with one. There is much more judgment needed to fly helicopters than aeroplanes. For example, helicopters are used to fly into private sites. These are places which are not controlled, don't have a licence and not been checked to the same extent as airports. No fire crew; no ATC. The pilot has to make the decision whether or not to use such a site and how to use it, with relatively limited help from anyone else.
You will need to gather training, experience and skill once you have your licence to become a satisfactory helicopter pilot. I hope your friend is prepared to spend the significant sums of money needed to help you do that.
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There are plenty of experienced helicopter pilots around, so your friend doesn't have look for long, just an ad on PPrune and he'll be sorted in a day. BTW good fixed wing pilot doesn't make a good helicopter pilot.
Last edited by HillerBee; 26th Feb 2012 at 19:39.
Originally Posted by matalice
Anyway turns out I only need to do 70 hours an POF(H) and a job awaits me
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GG i think you are right, LASORS D4.2(C) page 23 says the same thing although it says it in a different way
105 hours (including 50 hour credit for CPL(A)) +
30 hours for modular course
-------
135 Total
also in my experience flight schools are terrible at giving good advice as to this sort of thing, check out the source docs yourself
105 hours (including 50 hour credit for CPL(A)) +
30 hours for modular course
-------
135 Total
also in my experience flight schools are terrible at giving good advice as to this sort of thing, check out the source docs yourself
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Shall we presume that your friend will give you job after you spend money at HIS school?
Minimum regulatory rules are one thing, handling skills/proficiency another, insurance etc yet another.
So far I've seen sound and well-meant advice from professionals, so your latest response wasn't really needed.
Minimum regulatory rules are one thing, handling skills/proficiency another, insurance etc yet another.
So far I've seen sound and well-meant advice from professionals, so your latest response wasn't really needed.
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Your research is wrong Matalice. I have an ATPL (A) with thousands of hours and a PPL(H) and I can assure you that you need a minimum of 135 hours heli including a 30 hour CPL course. This is the MINIMUMS.
If your "friend" needs a pilot now why would he look at you just starting training and months/years away from licence issue?
OR....In the USA you can get a CPL(H) with as little as 50ish hours I believe, with fixed wing hours. Try getting employed though!
If your "friend" needs a pilot now why would he look at you just starting training and months/years away from licence issue?
OR....In the USA you can get a CPL(H) with as little as 50ish hours I believe, with fixed wing hours. Try getting employed though!
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Matalice,
I did some helpful research in a friendly manner and looking at source documents came up with a figure of 135 hours
please can you tell me where the 70 hours figure came from and how it has been calculated?
kind regards
I did some helpful research in a friendly manner and looking at source documents came up with a figure of 135 hours
please can you tell me where the 70 hours figure came from and how it has been calculated?
kind regards
I'm guessing the 70 hours comes from a supeficial look at the requirements for upgrading a PPL(H) - which can be done in 40 hours + 5 hours in an FNPT - with the 30 hours CPL(H) modular course.
However, that calculation misses the additional experience required of the PPL(H) holder which, for a CPL(A) holder is 105 hours in helicopters - so we are back to our 135 hours! Fancy that
However, that calculation misses the additional experience required of the PPL(H) holder which, for a CPL(A) holder is 105 hours in helicopters - so we are back to our 135 hours! Fancy that
Ah, rats. Matalice seems to have flounced out of the room (again) and taken all of his posts with him. 
Was he starting to get shirty with the big boys when they didn't give him the answer that he thought they should?
Was he starting to get shirty with the big boys when they didn't give him the answer that he thought they should?