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-   -   Exit hold to commence approach (https://www.pprune.org/questions/624908-exit-hold-commence-approach.html)

Balkanhawk 24th Aug 2019 21:56

Exit hold to commence approach
 
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....487cc30f3a.jpg
EISG Sligo NDB DME Appr 29

Hi all,
Quick question. What's the correct course reversal from this hold to commence the approach from the overhead?
my reading is exit 309 for a minute and then left turn back to overhead and then outbound 115 on the procedure.

ersa 25th Aug 2019 01:25

Without seeing all the notes for the procedure, yes you would have to fly outbound on 309 degrees and self position . Then track 115 for the procedure .

Chesty Morgan 25th Aug 2019 03:34

Just do an 80/260(ish) over the fix.

aterpster 25th Aug 2019 12:39

Under PANS-OPS, when there is a base leg, you are required to enter an alignment holding pattern if your course towards the base leg is not within 30 degrees of the base leg outbound. That would be a standard holding pattern NW of SLG NDB 115 degree inbound, 3,500.


flyboyike 26th Aug 2019 13:23

I can't make heads or tails out of that plate, I must not be very smart. Someone wanna explain to me what's going on there? What's that holding pattern even doing there?

Balkanhawk 26th Aug 2019 21:47


Originally Posted by flyboyike (Post 10554552)
I can't make heads or tails out of that plate, I must not be very smart. Someone wanna explain to me what's going on there? What's that holding pattern even doing there?

Here's the link Sligo Approaches it's the NDB DME 29

Balkanhawk 26th Aug 2019 21:49


Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan (Post 10553547)
Just do an 80/260(ish) over the fix.

I am a fan of the 80/260! The wind up that part of world can make a finessed reversal challenging...

aterpster 27th Aug 2019 13:11


Originally Posted by flyboyike (Post 10554552)
I can't make heads or tails out of that plate, I must not be very smart. Someone wanna explain to me what's going on there? What's that holding pattern even doing there?

It appears to me that the holding pattern is a mistake, carried over from the NDB Runway 11 procedures, where it is the ICAO compliant base-leg alignment pattern.

Here are all the Jepp charts, so whoever cares, can try to sort it out. There is no doubt in my mind that the proper ICAO compliant was erroneously omitted from the Runway 29 procedure. But, most people probably wouldn't fly the Rwy 29 base leg because of the DME entry routes.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....10981d19b5.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c2b9f812d2.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b6c52c2374.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....371ea863ee.jpg

ersa 28th Aug 2019 00:04

The Jepps plate explains it all

Balkanhawk 29th Aug 2019 02:55


Originally Posted by ersa (Post 10555751)
The Jepps plate explains it all

Care to elaborate?

AerocatS2A 29th Aug 2019 07:21

Yeah, I don’t see that the Jepp plate explains anything additional.

aterpster 29th Aug 2019 13:26


Originally Posted by AerocatS2A (Post 10556845)
Yeah, I don’t see that the Jepp plate explains anything additional.

From the snippet the OP posted I wasn't aware of the two transitions that bypass the base leg. I also infer that the SLIGO holding pattern is redundant on the Runway 29 chart.

Balkanhawk 29th Aug 2019 19:08


Originally Posted by aterpster (Post 10557118)
From the snippet the OP posted I wasn't aware of the two transitions that bypass the base leg. I also infer that the SLIGO holding pattern is redundant on the Runway 29 chart.

Ah right, I suppose my point is however you end up in the hold (Go around, waiting on weather to clear, other traffic etc.), there has to be a standard way to commence the approach.
There's a similar hold up the road in Carrickfin (EIDL)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....41dc19547b.jpg

ersa 30th Aug 2019 05:29

ICAO DOC 8168: When arriving overhead the beacon first time, the heading must be within certain limits(30° of the entry-track). If not, clearance must be obtained to manoeuvre to get within the limits - manoeuvring space

aterpster 30th Aug 2019 13:23


Originally Posted by ersa (Post 10557592)
ICAO DOC 8168: When arriving overhead the beacon first time, the heading must be within certain limits(30° of the entry-track). If not, clearance must be obtained to manoeuvre to get within the limits - manoeuvring space

Typically, that holding pattern is charted on base-leg IAPs.


aterpster 30th Aug 2019 15:01


Originally Posted by Balkanhawk (Post 10557334)
Ah right, I suppose my point is however you end up in the hold (Go around, waiting on weather to clear, other traffic etc.), there has to be a standard way to commence the approach.
There's a similar hold up the road in Carrickfin (EIDL)

At EIDL the portrayed pattern serves as both the base leg alignment and missed approach holding pattern. That is good design, and typical. They should have done the same for Runway 29 at EISG.


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