KEWR FLOSI3 STAR
On the KEWR FLOSI3 STAR there is a note that reads: Turbojet and turboprop aircraft 250k or greater are authorized.
There are no speeds or speed restrictions on the chart. There are some altitude restrictions. I'm guessing it mean those aircraft may use the STAR, but when is that note ever needed? Could it be an authorization to exceed 250k below 10,000?http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1709/00285FLOSI.PDF |
Not an authorization to exceed 250 KIAS below 10,000. They don't want jets or turbojets that can't accept a speed assignment of 250. Some of the small jets and turboprops can't do 250 KIAS.
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Not the best wording is it? "Turbojets and Turboprops capable of 250 kts or greater ONLY" would be a bit more clear.
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No one ever accused the FAA of being good wordsmiths.
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Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 9870600)
Not an authorization to exceed 250 KIAS below 10,000. They don't want jets or turbojets that can't accept a speed assignment of 250. Some of the small jets and turboprops can't do 250 KIAS.
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FAA rules -
ATC can not waive 91.117, the 250 below 10 rule. However 91.117 (d) says if the minimum safe speed of an aircraft exceeds the limits stated in 91.117 the aircraft can be operated at that minimum safe speed. No requirement to request high speed. ATC knows a "heavy" departing on an eight or twelve hour flight will be exceeding 250 when it cleans up. The one exception ( that I know of) is the O'Hare departure in Chicago which requires 250 until ATC approves a higher speed. Clearance Delivery normally asks heavys to "confirm you are able to meet the speed and altitude restrictions of the O'Hare departure." I reply that we'll make the altitudes but are unable the speed, that we'll be climbing at 275 and request they pass that information to Departure. |
Originally Posted by ImbracableCrunk
(Post 9871893)
Do you really need an "authorization" for that? The KEWR DYLIN4 STAR uses the term "applicability." I'm not a lawyer, but it seems those are pretty different terms.
Can't read their collective minds on the differences. |
Originally Posted by MarkerInbound
(Post 9872237)
FAA rules -
ATC can not waive 91.117, the 250 below 10 rule. However 91.117 (d) says if the minimum safe speed of an aircraft exceeds the limits stated in 91.117 the aircraft can be operated at that minimum safe speed. No requirement to request high speed. ATC knows a "heavy" departing on an eight or twelve hour flight will be exceeding 250 when it cleans up. The one exception ( that I know of) is the O'Hare departure in Chicago which requires 250 until ATC approves a higher speed. Clearance Delivery normally asks heavys to "confirm you are able to meet the speed and altitude restrictions of the O'Hare departure." I reply that we'll make the altitudes but are unable the speed, that we'll be climbing at 275 and request they pass that information to Departure. I suspect it's just bad writing, but there is the slim possibility that somehow it allows for 250kts below 10k. |
Originally Posted by ImbracableCrunk
(Post 9872654)
True. ATC can't waive, but the Administrator may authorize. And that's the verb on the chart - Turbojet and turboprop aircraft 250k or greater are authorized.
I suspect it's just bad writing, but there is the slim possibility that somehow it allows for 250kts below 10k. The "Administrator" authorized 280 below 10,000 at Houston quite a few years ago. It was a bad project that sank into the sunset after several months. And, the authorizing language was much more specific than what is written on this Newark procedure. |
All the transitions on this STAR begin above 10,000 MSL. They don't want slowpokes going 220 KIAS clogging up the works. All they had to do to make the restriction clearer was to add a single word so that it reads:
"NOTE: ONLY TurboJet and Turboprop aircraft capable of 250 KIAS or greater are authorized." Instead of " NOTE: TurboJet and Turboprop aircraft capable of 250 KIAS or greater are authorized." Just a single word can make all the difference. |
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