Technical stop duration
Hello,
It's been a hell of a time since I didn't been back on the community forums, after a few personal concerns, and today I want to launch a topic that raises my curiosity. I would like to remind you that as a French speaker, my English might not be the most understandable, which is why I would ask you to be patient and understanding. I've noticed that during a report on an Air France A380, just arrived from a flight it seems it assured on Los Angeles, therefore of a duration of 12h of flight, it was programmed 3h after his park for a new flight on New York:ooh:!!.... This time of stop seemed rather short to me: personally, I play a simulation of airline management, and for my long-haul planes, I set a stopover of 50% of the duration of flight that they make, that is to say that if my A380 makes a 12-hour flight, I leave it parked at destination for 6 hours before its return flight time, this in my opinion to not keep the reactors operating on stresses too sustained, potentially increasing the risk of failure. I would like to know whether there are any technical constraints or other factors which determine the minimum duration of technical stop for different types of aircraft? Thank you for your answers. |
Bonjour
I set a stopover of 50% of the duration of flight that they make, that is to say that if my A380 makes a 12-hour flight, I leave it parked at destination for 6 hours before its return flight time, As an extreme example the shortest turnaround I've seen for a 747 was just under 40 minutes ( brakes on - one pax off (medical) - top up of fuel, check of engine oils - sign paperwork- push back- depart). |
When flying Heathrow to Rio or return (BA 777), there is a tech stop at Sao Paulo which last about 1 hour.
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Ah yes, I can't recall if all the pax have to get off on that transit and then reboard or whether those "going through" can stay onboard - they used to be able to and that speeds the tech stop up. I've also seen on occasions 1 hour transits done in SIN on the LHR/Oz routes, and that is somewhere where everybody has to get off, but the key to that one working so quickly is having efficient ground staff and an efficient terminal/gate layout.
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Financial reasons.
Airplanes cost money sitting on the ground. Just for the fun of it: Airplane cost $240 million new Depreciation to zero: 20 years That's $12million/year just in depreciation. $32,876/ day $1,367/hr $22.83/min. This is just depreciation. Doesn't include maintenance cost and insurance over 20 years. Long haul airplanes can spend up to 16-18hrs in the air in a 24hr period. Two legs plus turn around. Some passengers flights are conducted at a loss and some may only make $300-$500 profit. On an entire flight. Any delay costs money. Big money. |
Curious what airline management sim do you play?
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I don't.
I fly them. But I'm a numbers geek ;) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A340 A 747-400 D check is $2.9 Million and that's every 4-5 years. |
Originally Posted by wiggy
(Post 9757889)
Ah yes, I can't recall if all the pax have to get off on that transit and then reboard or whether those "going through" can stay onboard - they used to be able to and that speeds the tech stop up. I've also seen on occasions 1 hour transits done in SIN on the LHR/Oz routes, and that is somewhere where everybody has to get off, but the key to that one working so quickly is having efficient ground staff and an efficient terminal/gate layout.
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Hi guys,
Sorry I could not get back to the forum earlier because I was busy these days ... Thank you in any case for your interventions ... AerocatS2A Curious what airline management sim do you play? wiggy You'll regularly see 2 hr or less stops routinely programmed at airports for Long Haul heavy types these days. and that's mainly due to the time it takes for the cabin to be cleaned and galleys to be refilled. The aircraft systems do not need to "rest" so the actual technical turnaround might just be a refuel and the engineers checking the engine oil levels and walking around the aircraft to check the gear and airframe for any signs of problems. As an extreme example the shortest turnaround I've seen for a 747 was just under 40 minutes ( brakes on - one pax off (medical) - top up of fuel, check of engine oils - sign paperwork- push back- depart). On the other hand, it is true that I did not take into account other stopovers operations such as passenger cabin cleaning, refueling and food, and loading / unloading luggage. On other forums I could see schedules inserted in the documentation of the manufacturers on the ground operations, but that I did not know how to interpret correctly. I also know that now the kerosene feeding of airplanes is done by an underground network of pipelines leading to the locations of airplanes: the fuel is then pumped from the ground and directly injected into the tanks of the planes, without needing a tanker truck . How long does it take a full tank of gas to run a bi-reactor? Does it depend on aircraft types and sub-types (B777-200 / 300, A330-200 / 300 etc)? On the other hand the time of turnaround you quote me for the B747 of 40 minutes, please with a sick passenger to evacuate, seems completely unimaginable !! ... This delay is already too fair for the A320 and B737 of low cost airlines !! ... chevvron&wiggy When flying Heathrow to Rio or return (BA 777), there is a tech stop at Sao Paulo which last about 1 hour. wiggy Ah yes, I can't recall if all the pax have to get off on that transit and then reboard or whether those "going through" can stay onboard - they used to be able to and that speeds the tech stop up. I've also seen on occasions 1 hour transits done in SIN on the LHR/Oz routes, and that is somewhere where everybody has to get off, but the key to that one working so quickly is having efficient ground staff and an efficient terminal/gate layout. B2N2 Financial reasons. Airplanes cost money sitting on the ground. Just for the fun of it: Airplane cost $240 million new Depreciation to zero: 20 years That's $12million/year just in depreciation. $32,876/ day $1,367/hr $22.83/min. This is just depreciation. Doesn't include maintenance cost and insurance over 20 years. Long haul airplanes can spend up to 16-18hrs in the air in a 24hr period. Two legs plus turn around. Some passengers flights are conducted at a loss and some may only make $300-$500 profit. On an entire flight. Any delay costs money. Big money. To get back know to my subject, can we standardize the turnaround time of some planes like ATR, B737 / A320, B767 / A330 etc ...? |
It seems to me I have read I do not know where the recommendations of the manufacturers to spare the reactors and avoid the risk of breakdowns. Chevvron and Wiggy, here is a rapid stopover due to an insufficient range of this airplane which does only suppose I think usual checks and the refueling in kerosene of the plane 1. Last time I did the Sao Paulo stopover chevron mentioned was not due to limited range, but he may be more up to date on it than I am. 2. The SIN transit is mainly due to range but even so it is not just "usual checks and the refueling". Some passengers leave the flight in SIN, others some join it, so on arrival everybody gets off the aircraft and heads into the terminal, the cabin gets a quick clean, there's some baggage unloading/loading, and then there's full boarding again as passengers get on, so it is much much more than just a fuel stop. I've personally seen that transit done in about an hour or a little more on several occasions...I would say that is just about as fast as you can do a full turnround on a 777 or a 747 and to achieve that everything has to work perfectly. On the other hand the time of turnaround you quote me for the B747 of 40 minutes, please with a sick passenger to evacuate, seems completely unimaginable !! .. I know you will see some very long turnrounds at times, but that will be done for several reasons: to perhaps fit in with schedules, to fit in with ATC slots or night slots at departure/destination (you see that with QF 380s at LHR and BA's 777 at SYD), or allow slightly more time for scheduled maintainance on the aircraft, which it will need every few sectors ...but in almost 30 years of flying Wide bodied aircraft on often Ultra Long Haul flights I have never heard of turn rounds being extended simply to let the engines have a rest. |
Limited range? You fly right past Rio to get to Sao Paulo then come back an hour or so Later!
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Ah that's how I remember it working... I was wondering if somewhere had moved and nobody had told me...
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