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-   -   Navigate with GPS (https://www.pprune.org/questions/562798-navigate-gps.html)

tacvbo 11th Jun 2015 11:06

Navigate with GPS
 
Hey you guys,

my father and I had a discussion the other day. We were talking about navigation and GPS systems when I stated that nowadays it is possible to navigate with GPS. My father replied that this would be possible but is currently not allowed by the LBA (the German FAA). All aircraft operating RNAV are getting their data via the inertial reference system and the GPS system is only a backup but still not available for RNAV. So far so good.

What I cannot understand is that there are charts that officially publish GPS approaches, like this one http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1506/00256R9L.PDF
As I understand that, the use of GPS is allowed for RNAV navigation. Is that correct?
I also see a lot of smaller aircraft like Socata TB850, Cessna Caravan, etc. using the GPS to display and follow their flightplan.

Please help me out on this topic.

5LY 11th Jun 2015 12:25

Modern transport jets navigate using FMC position info. The FMC looks at IRS pos., radio pos. (by auto tuning VOR's and DME's) and GPS pos. and derives it's pos. by comparing all info and choosing what it perceives to be the most accurate. This is almost always GPS pos. IRS's drift, VOR's and DME's aren't always in range.

aterpster 11th Jun 2015 12:26

tacybo:


my father and I had a discussion the other day. We were talking about navigation and GPS systems when I stated that nowadays it is possible to navigate with GPS. My father replied that this would be possible but is currently not allowed by the LBA (the German FAA). All aircraft operating RNAV are getting their data via the inertial reference system and the GPS system is only a backup but still not available for RNAV...
Ask him for an authoritative reference to support his position.

aterpster 11th Jun 2015 12:28

5LY:


Modern transport jets navigate using FMC position info. The FMC looks at IRS pos., radio pos. (by auto tuning VOR's and DME's) and GPS pos. and derives it's pos. by comparing all info and choosing what it perceives to be the most accurate. This is almost always GPS pos. IRS's drift, VOR's and DME's aren't always in range.
That isn't the case with some of the smaller aircraft he included in his question. They may have only a flux-gate compass and a Garmin panel navigator.

cessnapete 11th Jun 2015 12:42

tacvbo
Incorrect, many modern aircraft now fly RNav and all IFR with just GPS. Inertial nav is not required and is not fitted. Even flying in Germany!

sgenie 12th Jun 2015 08:08

In New Zealand, for example, GPS is not allowed as a sole mean navigation system but is allowed as a primary mean navigation system - maybe Germany has the same limit?

AerocatS2A 13th Jun 2015 14:02

True, but primary means is, for practical purposes, the same as sole means except that you have a VOR tuned up and displayed somewhere in the cockpit for the pilot to disregard, or perhaps you have an FMS that tunes a VOR and disregards it in preference to the highly accurate GPS position. In other words, to all practical purposes, you are using GPS to navigate and the OPs father is wrong.

172_driver 13th Jun 2015 22:09

And unless you are a big airliner you are likely not equipped with inertial nav system. So something else would have to suffice.

aterpster 14th Jun 2015 13:10

Or, a higher end biz jet.


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