T/O or CLB Power during E/O after V1
 

Hello,

747-400 question but perhaps applicable to other ships?

Flaps 10/20, TOGA selected, V1 passed, V2 approaching, engine fail #X, slower pitch up, gear up, follow FD for V2(+10 ish) until E/O accel height of, say, 800. All good so far?

Accel commences, flaps up on schedule, routing confirmed.

Question:

When would you engage A/P and which FMA mode would you like? VNAV or V/S? LNAV or HDG HOLD? If in VNAV of course, if selected in the FMC, Flaps5 will give CLB/1/2 thrust. Is that acceptable or would we be using THR button to get climb power when deemed safe/comfortable? Or would we stay in TO thrust mode with SPD selected along with V/S and not worry about CLB thrust setting appearing?

In other words, what would the FMA look like once at F5 during the E/O climb-out towards a holding point?

Thanks kindly.

Autopilot in once the flight path is under control and you are above 250ft

I would 'Prefer' LNAV & VNAV.. In most cases it is already armed on the ground so there is no need to change the modes. You may need HDG SEL if there is a special Eng out procedure otherwise LNAV will give appropriate AOB protection and will fly the SID so why not use it.

VNAV is also an appropriate and intelligent mode as it will give you accelleration to Vref30+100 and it will give you CON thrust once cleaned up and at vref+98. Ie it will disregard the Thrust reduction alt/flaps set in the FMC if it has detected an engine failure.

another option if VNAV isn't used is FLCH or even Stay in TOGA. in both those cases you will need to set vref+100 manually you will also need to Push the THR button once cleaned up and at vref+100

In the Go around case. If pressing vnav at accel height then it will immediately set CON thrust but only if ENG OUT prompt was selected .. otherwise if ENG OUT isn't selected then it will set CLB thrust. when using FLCH or TOGA for GA it is the same as the Take off scenario above

A/P engagement at 250' with the correct rudder input usually TOGA/TOGA with LNAV/VNAV armed would be the usual selected modes at this point. Company procedures vary, but the usual procedure is to then select HDG SEL if there is an engine out procedure to be followed. I've never heard of anyone using V/S for the climb as there is no speed protection in this mode.

You would be wanting Maximum Continuous Thrust in this situation.

Again, I've never heard of anyone using V/S for this situation. Also, you want CON thrust.

Normally THRREF/LNAV/VNAV or HDG SEL as appropriate.

There should not be a pressing need of rushing into autopilot engagement at low altitude. Presumably the pilot is competent to hand fly on instruments since he should have an instrument rating. Opinions differ of course but some pilots would prefer to get the aircraft cleaned up and tracking correctly before considering engaging the automatics. Loss of Control caused by hasty engagement of the automatics has been the cause of accidents in the past. Recommend viewing the film Children of the Magenta Line because there are good lessons to be gained from it

You're all most kind and responses greatly appreciated.

I will seek out the documentary of which A37575 speaks.

Thanks! :ok:

In the take off ref page on the FMS you van program a EO ACC height and all engine ACC height and a thrust reduction alt. If an engine fails below the Thrust reduction height CON thrust will automatically be set at V2 +98 and flaps ups, if it fails above the Thrust reduction height then you have to select the EO prompt on the FMS to get CON thrust.

In both cases the proper thrust setting is CON with an engine out and not CLB 1 or 2,

Basically in our company (always take off in VNAV LNAV), engine failure before SID deviation and below EO ACC height, maintain runway track ( unless a specific EO out scenario is published), at EO ACC height A/C will start to accelerate and con thrust will be set automatically after flaps up and V2+98

EO past sid deviation but before EO ACC ( which will generally be the same as thrust reduction alt)height, speed window open and accelerate above the MSA, con thrust will be set automatically at after flaps up and V2+98.

EO past Sid deviation and above EO ACC height, select speed window open and execute the EO out prompt on the FMS to get CON thrust(once it is in CLB 1 or 2 you have to execute the EO prompt to get CON), accelerate at a convenient level but at the minimum above MSA.

Edited, checked the books and changed the point where CON is set. Seems more complicated than it is, but that happens when you try to compress two pages in one post.

Agreed. thats why I said "flight path under control & ABOVE 250ft".

Remember that just because we are constantly flying manually until clean up for PC's in the SIM doesn't mean we Have to do that in real life.

The 744 will automatically switch to CON thrust after flaps are up and speed is above V2+80. There is no need to manually select it. The previously selected TO thrust will remain selected until then.

Use autopilot as you like. I would wait until airplane is stable and rudder is trimmed for the inop engine. VNAV and LNAV should work in normal circumstances. You will need HDG SEL if you have a special engine-out climb profile.

Intruder

I think you'll find it is Vref + 98 kts and flaps up when CON becomes active. If not you can press the THR switch which is the only time I've seen it used!

Why wouldn't all of this be covered in initial and recurrent training?

Smells like a troll to me.

A troll? I use the PMDG 747X software and am merely interested in furthering my knowledge of non-standard ops for a more realistic experience. Try looking at my history and when I joined to verify your troll status report. I'm only a CPL/ATPL chap myself.

As for the useful responses, thanks, it makes for insightful reading.

(You may also notice that a few real pilots have had their knowledge verified or corrected, which can't be a bad thing following my innocent question).

However, it's proper courtesy to let people know you have a flight sim question rather than a "real" question...

Intruder:

Exactly.

Exactly indeed. IMO this thread is no longer 'Tech Log' worthy