It will be interesting to see how both those Kalitta crashes will come out of the reports. Sadly peple died this time. I am unsure whether any airline can survive 2 crashes less than 50 days apart. But whatever you say here, don´t say anything detrimental about really old airplanes in general, old 747s or Kalitta in particular or you will have SNS3Guppy all over you. :uhoh:

From german News channel n.tv:
 

"...Die Besatzung des Jumbos habe überlebt, weil der Rumpfteil, in dem sie sich befanden, von den explodierenden Tanks abgerissen und mehr als 50 Meter weit weggeschleudert worden sei, sagte die Krankenschwester der kolumbianischen Luftwaffe, Laura Linares. Sie war eine der ersten am Unglücksort. ..."

"..."The crew of the Jumbo survived, because the part of the ac body in witch they where located was torn off by ( / from the part with) the exploding fueltank and skid more than 160 ft away." reported Laura Linares, a nurse of the Columbian Airforce and one of the first persons arriving at the accidents location."

Condolences to those families with loved ones lost.

Facts
 

Facts speak for themselves, 2 crashes in a short period of time. It would seem something is rotten in Denmark (or in this case Ypsilanti).

Very bad news for Kallita, but I don't think we should necessarily be looking at blaming the aircraft.There is a big experience gap out there, and the 747 can be an unforgiving aircraft if training and competance is not up to scratch. (30+years on 747s).

Kallita will probably survive if they stick to freight. Insurance will cover the aircraft, (unless they self insured the hulls), and there are plenty more out there looking for homes.

Couldn't agree more, Fesmokie
 

"Who in the F#$k said it has anything to do with Maintenance procedures? For all we know it could have been a missle, a bomb, drugs gone bad."

People already speculating about maintenance, older aircraft, etc, etc. What BS. But then, this wouldn't be PPRUNE, would it?

It would not be the first aircraft blown out of the sky departing SKBO.

So why don't we all wait until they figure out what happened.

I have no recollection
 

I have no recollection of previous aircraft being blown out of the sky at Bogota. When was that please?

ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 727-21 HK-1803 Bogotá

Just and only for the record

Thank You.
 

I was unaware of that. Thank you.

Ah.... why operate expensive 3 man -200's when you can have newer 400's?
Why try to sell a frame, wait for a buyer that will be hard to come by?

Times is rough....

If only there was a way to get insurance money from planes that have been lost.......

A little premature, don't you think? Presently there is no indication as to what may have occured, or why. A rather rash assumption on your part, but not the first you've made in quick succession here.

What facts? You are aware of something here that no one else knows? From your commentary, that would appear highly unlikely.

You're unaware of airplanes being shot down in Colombia? How can you be that unaware and then jump to conclusions as to what may have occured.

A number of aircraft have been shot down in Colombia, both from the ground (FARC) and from the air (air bridge denial program).

This is an unfortunate incident, facts for which are not yet in evidence.

Loss of life is tragic, regardless the cause. I will never understand why the media sensationalizes loss of life from aircraft accidents and why the public (pilots included) at large is so shocked when it happens. Worldwide over 3000 people a day are killed in automobile accidents.

Conclusions?
 

I was unaware of having made any conclusions; only general statements. Perhaps someone on this board has a guilty conscience?

Time will tell and I will of course wait for the official determinations. My prayers go to the families of those unfortunates that have been injured and killed.

Guppy,

This is clearly a full blown accident, not just an incident. Naturally, everyone will wait for more information to come out. We should realize, I think, that many of the commentators on pprune are not proffessionals and will make mistakes that we can politely correct if we know something different.

By the ferocity of your posts, one would suspect that you're sent here by the concerned company for damage control. :rolleyes:

Reports by the press are routinely used in court and in Congress. Many of them, as we know, turn out to have serious errors in them. But we now have a published report from cnn that an engine fire was declared by the crew.

CNN:

747 freighter crashes in Colombia - CNN.com

IMHO, it is unreasonable for you to insist that nobody discuss reports in the media, and instead wait years for a gov accident report to come out. :oh:

Maybe it would help to start by specifying that that a post is purely hypothetical.

Sad month indeed.

Good observation.
 

It does sound like he's one of Connies "Shoe Shine" boys.

Having worked for that dirt bag operation flying the DC-8's and L-1011's many years ago. With Chief Pilot Jim McCormick at the helm. This accident should be no surprise to anyone familiar to Connie's operation.
This dirt bag operation has a long history of accidents and incidents involving the deaths of many pilots who flew for Connie. The deaths occurred in his Learjets.
The most appalling accident occurred in the early 1990's when Connie's whores (ie...Pilot's) crashed a DC-8 in Gitmo (Cuba) after being on duty for over 26 hours. The crew literally fell asleep as they were turning on a 90 degree final turn while landing to the east. You have to understand the difficult type of landing involved when landing at the Naval Air Station. The airplane cart-wheeled down the runway. The Captain was an Eastern Airlines scab who feared loosing his job (ie...being fired by Connie) if he refused the trip. The copilot had one of his legs amputated after the accident and the flight engineer suffered massive head injuries which resulted in permanent brain damage.
Connie asked the employees at the time to donate part of their salary to help support these pilots in receiving income while disabled. It was unbelievable- he didn't provide any support from his own pockets!
Later, they had a DC8 literally loose number #1 engine (fell-off) at 35,000 feet while flying over Denver, Colorado. Then we had the Connie B747 literally loose an engine (fall-off) after takeoff in Chicago (ORD) and fall into Lake Michigan.
Right now Connie Kalitta is calling his Congressman and Senator's from Michigan and threatening job losses in the state of Michigan if the FAA comes after his company in an attempt to shut him down. He's used this ploy for years every time the FED'S show up at his place of business. The politicans have always kept the FAA away.
His maintenance is some of the worst in the industry, with mechanic's who routinely pencil-whip write-up's.
The flight crew's are whore's who fly these broken airplanes for fear of loosing their dirt-bag jobs. They are bottom feeder's who couldn't get real jobs with real airlines.
Many of them don't have college degrees (for those you in Europe who don't know... this lack of a degree makes you ineligible for employment consideration with "real" passenger (ie...Delta) and cargo (ie...UPS/Fed Ex) airlines in America.
This accident in South America was a simple case of flying a broken airplane when it should'nt have been flown, and pushing the limits...well they lost. And I hope those scum bag pilot's spend many years in a Columbian jail - where they belong and deserve it. Hopefully the rest of those dirt bag pilots will realize it's not worth going to jail for Connie Kalitta.

Hence the username....

Connie Kalitta doesn't run the Learjets. Until very recently it was owned and run by his Son, Doug. The "dirt bag operation" isn't the same operation, you're confusing your companies, and you have no idea what you're talking about. As usual.

Pilots as "whores?" Piss in your own wheaties, this morning, did you?

As far as being Connie Kalitta's shoe shine boy...I've never met the man, don't know him personally, and in all liklihood, never will. I don't know him.

I do, however, know that accusations of maintenance issues regarding this specific incident (it's somewhat premature to call an "accident," as nothing is yet known) are foolishly misplaced. Nothing is known regarding what happened. The fools who begin braying at the moon and crying poor maintenance or pilot fatigue or whatever other possibility might be dreamed up here do so in absolute ignorance. If you have facts regarding this mishap which support your assertions, by all means lay them on the table. Otherwise, you only appear foolish.

In your "humble" opinion, did I say anything about nobody discussing popular media reports? I did not. Did I say anything about waiting years for a government accident report to come out? I did not.

However, stupid, wild speculation regarding facts not inevidence (poor maintenance, pilot fatigue, etc) are not based on media reports, not based on factual evidence, not based on anything but speculation, and contribute nothing. These sort of wild guesses only serve to cloud the issue and generate more rumors.

An aircraft has crashed. This much we know. Reports have been offered regarding possible occurences associated with the mishap. This much we know. That the reports are correct, we do not know. Therefore the media reports are not facts, but sketchy bits of preliminary information.

There exists a strong urge to run away with all kinds of tangent barkings and brayings about pilot whores and poor maintenance and rants that really have no basis here. This was not a Learjet. This was not an aircraft operated by a company that's no longer in business, and it was not into Gitmo. This was out of Colombia. It was only a few hours ago, and so far, we know nothing about what has occured. Perhaps it behooves those of us who elect to behave as adults to wait until we have some ground to stand upon before making statements on the subject

A small correction.
 

Connie's son was Scott. Scott was recently killed in a drag racing accident; my prayers to the family.

Doug is Connie's nephew; and I will add a fine man I have had the pleasure to meet.

People have been killed. An aircraft is destroyed. This is not an incident. It is not premature to call this an accident. This is not only an accident; it is a tragedy.