SLF Question: Are We Safe?
Folks,
I have a lot of respect for this industry, and I know that a lot of your bean-counting bosses and managers don't... Quick question: Are we safe, would you want your children in the care of folks working in commercial transport? [I'm sure this will get a nice range of responses, but please don't flame - this is a thought-provoker, nothing more...] Post here, or nail me at [email protected] Thanks! |
How many flights per day? How many crashes?
Should answer your question:rolleyes::ugh: |
How many flights per day? How many crashes? Should answer your question:rolleyes::ugh: Well, we've weighed in with 1 bean counter / actuarial analyst response. Topbunk, are you crew, pilot, or what? Anyone else wanna ask me about math I can do on fingers, or can we get some real responses here? ....... |
Well that depends . . .
RR,
I was asked the same question on the afternoon of Sept 11. How would you have answered then? How about today? How do the answers compare? There are many, many variables that make up my decision to continue/divert or keep the brakes set, and they vary day to day. So the easy answer is "well, that depends ..." The actions for any situation takes the collective resources of a crew's lifetime of education & experience to do the right thing, timely, and in the correct sequence. |
Well, in the US we kill about 43,000 people/year in cars. In the entire history of aviation we havent killed that many people (wish I could find the actual number)... In recent years in the US its been between 100-200 aviation fatalities a year. Keep in mind most are some rich guy with an airplane and too much money who has no business flying that kills his family...
As safe as aviation is and will always be, I do think we will see a slight increase in accidents. There is a combination of aging fleets and cost cutting along with less experienced pilots making their way into the cockpit. |
Canada -
So the easy answer is "well, that depends ..." The actions for any situation takes the collective resources of a crew's lifetime of education & experience to do the right thing, timely, and in the correct sequence. As SLF these days, flying is a very impersonal experience. You put your ass on an aircraft which may or may not have been maintained to the maker's specs, and most of the time, you never even see the captain or first officer - they're usually already in their chairs and the cockpit door is closed. The first time I flew commercial was on a B72-2, landing in San Diego - a rough, fast landing since there was some miscommunication between the controllers and the crew. Even so, the crew had the time to inform us that we would be "landing real fast now," so we knew what to expect. Fast in, down hard, no hard feelings. Stuff came out of the overheads when they popped open, but it wasn't an emergency of any sort. The lack of communication these days, combined with the fact that sometimes things REALLY go bad makes for a horrible environment. You sort of expect something like air travel to get better, but it hasn't - it's gotten worse, at least from the perspective of knowing what's going on. But - your reply lets me know that there are at least a few folks out there still paying attention. /// |
Safe, in what terms? Safe from poor pilots, safe from crew, safe from other SLF, safe from mechanical failure, safe from dirty cabin air, safe from typical airline food, safe from >100ml bottles of water, safe from airport security, safe from good pilots (performing fly-bys) , safe from my captain's hallitosis, safe from Boeing rudder faults, safe from Airbus x-wind inexperience, safe from Brazillian aircraft safe from Canadian aircraft etc?
If flying worries you, don't leave your house, don't cross the road, don't get out of bed etc etc (although all these have their own problems....) fc101 E145 driver |
You need to define 'Safe'.
Life itself is pretty dangerous, and has a 100% chance of resulting in death, so how do you determine what's safe or not? Personally, I think it's a question of risk assessment and qualified judgements. I will never fly with certain airlines and will always choose others. More than that, other than go by boat or train, that's all I can do to try and assure my safety. |
RR
Topbunk, are you crew, pilot, or what? |
There's no doubt in my mind that flying is safer than driving etc. However, as one in the industry, I too am just a little concerned at the level of experience in the F/D of some a/c today. There has in recent years been a fairly rapid expansion of the world's commercial aircraft population and pilots to crew them. We are presently in what I would consider a transition period where there are perhaps more inexperienced (total hours) pilots than average. It is not uncommon to see both Captain and F/O on an a/c to have relatively low hours of experience in their respective positions. Add the commercial pressures they are subjected to these days and it becomes a worrying scenario. Admitedly in the majority of cases this is compensated with good training and good company SOPs. There's no doubt flying is still by far the safest form of transport and safer than crossing the road, but I would say that it may just be a little less so than usual whilst the new generation of pilots acquire their hours. Does all this make sense? Probably not, but it's still too early for me :)
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As a pilot I feel safer in an aeroplane than in a car
However, if you are worried then perhaps it would be best NOT to fly! Just a thought:E UTF |
Can't say whether it is safe or not, but with absolute certainty and conviction I can say that it has spiralled very quickly downmarket in the last few years.
What used to be a pleasurable experience has now turned into a low life chore. I have flown everything to first class in Emirates (excellent) to cattle class in Easy Jet. At least with Easy jet I got pretty much what I paid for. Qatar was lousy, BA was lazy, Virgin was pretty good, Europa was OK, Iberia was OK, Lufthansa was passable, Thai was passable, Jet was interesting, Cubana actually had cockroaches on board, the list goes on and on. Point is most of these airlines used to take pride in their service, now we really are just SLF I used to enjoy the SLF part of my work, but nowadays I would rather take a bus. Air Travel, a steep fall from grace.:hmm: |
Are we safe? would you want your children in the care of folks working in commercial transport? a rough, fast landing since there was some miscommunication between the controllers and the crew. Even so, the crew had the time to inform us that we would be "landing real fast now," so we knew what to expect. Fast in, down hard, no hard feelings. Stuff came out of the overheads when they popped open, but it wasn't an emergency of any sort. The lack of communication these days combined with the fact that sometimes things REALLY go bad makes for a horrible environment. You sort of expect something like air travel to get better, but it hasn't - it's gotten worse, at least from the perspective of knowing what's going on. But - your reply lets me know that there are at least a few folks out there still paying attention. PP |
When you get in a car - are you safe?
When you go to the kitchen or bathroom - are you safe? When you go to hospital - are you safe? When you walk down a street - are you safe? When you argue with a spouse - are you safe? When you are in a bar - are you safe? When you swim in a hotel pool - are you safe? How much fear do you want in your life? |
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Again, that is a bit of a mass generalisation. I recently had a tech problem that required a return to stand and I faced the passengers in the main cabin, made a PA explaining what the problem was, said I would speak to them again in 20 minutes (to the second) with an update and then walked along the isle answering any questions they had/ calming any fears. In the end we took a 3hr delay, but they were ALL happy because I was honest, explained in simple language what the problem was, what I and my company were doing about it and thanked them for trusting my judgement which is what they had paid the price of their ticket for. When they disembarked at destination I got several waves and thumbs up as they passed my side window. So, don't assume that because you had one bad experience everyone is the same. Whilst you are to be commended for your open-ness and honesty to the passengers, in the other 99.99% of cases, the single biggest complaint is the misleading or total lack of information when a delay is experienced. In many cases the representatives are told to lie. |
As a general guide, there are airlines where I'm happy to entrust my family to their care, there are others that I wouldn't (a current example of that being Adam Air). The former category has had the occasional cock-up or bomb, but as a percentage of people carried it's an adequately-low risk.
Do you trust your driving sufficiently to risk carrying your children in the car? You're far more likely to have a fatal/serious accident driving to/from the airport than you are on the aircraft. That's probably even true with some of the dodgy carriers, given the driving conditions around their operating airports. I take the same approach as Topbunk's initial response and I'm definitely not a beancounter. |
Point I am trying to make is that if "front of house" is showing a big drop in standards, what is going on "back of house"
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Rotten - what is it you want to know exactly when you say there is a lack of comms?
The "rough " landing due to lack of comms between ATC and the flightdeck - who told you that that was what the issue was? If there were items being flung out of the overhead lockers - then that sounds rather more than a normal but bumpy landing. Try to bear in mind that there are 2 pilots at the pointy end - both of whom have a healthy desire to fly and land safely at the end of a shift, and are not going to fly an aircraft if it unsafe to do so. Sometimes things go wrong ( as indeed they can with your car/bus/train/legs), and because flying, unlike driving/walking etc, is something that the general public don't know much about , it is sensationalised by journalists. If you are on a train - how much do you want to be told by the driver? I have no problems with folk asking sensible questions - but I frankly find your questions and statements both bizarre and pointless. It sounds like you are a bit of a control freak ; not being in control and not understanding about flying and what is going on seems to be your main issue here, not whether flying is safe or not. Why don't you go on one of these fear of flying courses to set your mind at rest? Best of luck louby |
El Grifo
in the other 99.99% of cases, the single biggest complaint is the misleading or total lack of information when a delay is experienced. In many cases the representatives are told to lie Point I am trying to make is that if "front of house" is showing a big drop in standards PP |
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