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The Death of British Aviation

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The Death of British Aviation

Old 2nd Sep 2020, 22:48
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
Regarding business travel, none of us really know how much will be lost. There are many different reasons people travel in premium classes, they may be sportsmen, Journalists covering sporting events or any entourage. We also return people to their home country's who have medical conditions and whose insurance is covering the expense. Many different worldwide conferences (which will not go online). We carry diplomats and other government officials. Many general passengers travelling for personal reasons who wish to spend on the comfort of a premium class seat. The list goes on and on. As a result of Covid the premium class seats will become more affordable whilst many in the community will be more able to afford those seats (rightly or wrongly, some industries and shareholders have done very well).

Secondly, I believe that you were referring to the Environmentalist issues. If this is a concern to you then I agree. However, the Aviation industry is not the place to start, it is the place to finish.To many it is the easiest polluter to attack because it doesn't effect the lives of the majority of activists in the environmental lobby. In reality people do want to travel, they always have and they always will, it brings people together and makes for a more peaceful world. The reason for not starting with Aviation is that the technology does not YET exist to run Aircraft completely emission free but progress toward that goal is being made very rapidly, aircraft are a full 5 times more efficient than they were 50 years ago. In the meantime it would be sensible to target emissions from Cars, Electrical power Generation, and Factories where the technology does already exist to eliminate emissions. The 2-4% generated by Aircraft will be gone within the next 30 years.
Yes, Iím sure you are right. Itíll all be fine. Aviation per se is not my speciality, although business travel is. It has been interesting reading and responding. Iíll leave it to you professionals. All the best.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 06:14
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
Regarding business travel, none of us really know how much will be lost. There are many different reasons people travel in premium classes, they may be sportsmen, Journalists covering sporting events or any entourage. We also return people to their home country's who have medical conditions and whose insurance is covering the expense. Many different worldwide conferences (which will not go online). We carry diplomats and other government officials. Many general passengers travelling for personal reasons who wish to spend on the comfort of a premium class seat. The list goes on and on. As a result of Covid the premium class seats will become more affordable whilst many in the community will be more able to afford those seats (rightly or wrongly, some industries and shareholders have done very well).
Very true Polax...I think many outside the industry are convinced business Class is the preserve of booted and suited men and women on their way to/from the latest sales pitch.

As you say these days (well pre-Covid) it is often anything but.

Last edited by wiggy; 3rd Sep 2020 at 06:41.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 06:49
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Very true Polax...I think many outside the industry are convinced business Class is the preserve of booted and suited men and women on their way too/from the latest sales pitch.

As you say these days (well pre-Covid) it is often anything but.
Ha ha, I was hoping to give up on this thread but youíve reeled me back in :-) Itís economics; it doesnít matter the demographic of business class (whether they are business people or not), what matters is how many people are going to travel, how often and how much they will pay for a ticket (the profitability of that ticket). If, as some here have speculated, there will be, after a readjustment, plenty of seats at low prices then this will be great for the consuming public of any Ďclassí, business or otherwise - cheap upgrades all round - gets my vote! BUT, if the readjustment doesnít scale back operating costs sufficiently (mainly jobs and wages sadly) those tickets will have to be sold in exponential volumes. Every passenger will be crucial, every trip will be crucial. Iím just saying that there will be fewer business passengers making fewer trips. The Ďrealí business passenger may only make up a small proportion of business Ďclassí but they do two things; travel more often and personally care less about the ticket cost - itís what makes them so profitable as individual passengers. Whether the shortfall is made up by higher volume and frequency elsewhere remains to be seen.
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 21:47
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 1,221
My Canadian neighbour who has a passing interest in Aviation said to me the other day that he had been thinking that given our history in Aviation the Government didnt seem too concerned about helping it especially given our love of showing off Spitfires and the by now quite ancient Red |Arrows as symbols of the country.
Hesaid the more he thought about it British avaition rather morrored the country as whole in as much as far from winning WW2 Britaina nd along with it its avaition industry were the losers.
This seemed a buit extreme to me in out break between noisily mowing our front gardens and asked him to elaborate.
He said that thinking back from now to the recently passed VJ day that looking back on the main priotagonsist in WW2 the UK had suffered the greatest decline , as he put it -
America emerged unchallnged as the worlds primary economic and military force , nukes and a massive economy benefiting post war from wartime investments in modern aviation manufacturing, the interstate and long distance phone networks
Russia who suffered more than anyone became a super power in the military sense witht he second loudest voice on the world stage
Germany , West at the time dragged itself from the ruins to become Europe's main economy rebuilding its traditonal strengths of engineering and science
France became the truly independent nuclear power in Europe and began to work with as opposed to against Germany to build the economic superpower that is the EU
But what of the Brits, we had at immnse cost in indebtedness tot he USA held the line while the US and Russia built the immense forces that won WW2 in the sense of defeating the Germans but our heroic efforts as aprt of that triumverate came at an appaling econic and politc price, . Our industry was outdated and worn out , our Empire lost (at USAs behest in many cases) Canada, Australia and especially India finding their own places ina changing world and we were elft witha staggering debt to the US. Aviation in UK had focussed on military and high rates of production in heath robinson facilites . While we had great ideas in the Comet and Viscount they were built in pre war tired old factories and of course over time Boeing and Airbus ruled the slies in the same way that our once incomparable merchant navy vanshed under the tide of modern ports and containerisation and loss of Empire.

So in the end it seems we didnt win WW2 at all and that all that gallantry and determination was dissipated in the economic realities of the last half of the twentieth century and that while all the other main protagonists got something positive from it for us it is just misplaced nostalgia and a continuing looking back at a past of empire and ruling the waves and Spitfires over the white cliffs of Dover and that maybe now we should quietly consigned the tokens of a long ago victory to the history books, not to be forgotten but placed in their proper context.

He compared his own country today to us in Britain and how Canada has moved forward overcoming the challenges of separatism and its often very noisy and aggressive neighbour while, in his mind (and his father died at Dieppe) we here have sadly let everything drift away on an ocean of nostalgia and wishful thinking of becoming Great again. ( while wondering perhaps how my own children have chosen to live in Eastern Europe and my neighbour on the other sides children have gone to Japan and a friend father down the roads has son in Berlin and a daughter in Lyon and I wonder what my father and father in law who both spent 5/6 years of their twenties in India defending a pillar of Empire we walked away from when the war ended. Maybe they would think my Canadian friend had a point-they most certainly wouldnt have even picked up their Lee Enfield 303s if they thought a man like Boris Jonson would one day be PM
I'll go and hide in deep shelter now and await incoming


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