Training session before LPC/OPC?

[Paulm1949]

Do airlines give you an hour in the sim before you take your LPC/OPC in order to practice first? Or is it straight into the test? Is the LPC mainly done as a LOFT exercise too?

Thanks

[flyboyike]

Depends on the airline. We actually get a full session the day before, it's even called "warmup".

[flyboyike]

Originally Posted by Small cog

Seriously? You should be competent to pass the test at anytime. It’s nothing less than you could encounter when line flying.

I'll relay your thoughts to the training department.

[Denti]

In my first company there was a simulator mission every three months, alternating between training and LPC/OPC. Then they changed it to align with all the other companies in the are to one simulator day of LOFT/Training and a second day of LPC/OPC every six months. And there were plans to do the LPC/OPC on the first day and LOFT/training on the second day which works better with ATQP.

[AerocatS2A]

We used to do an LOE on day 1 followed by some spot training and V1 failure practice. Day 2 was for the checks. That’s changed so that we are typically handling an engine failure straight away. I don’t have a problem with that, you should be able to do deal with a failure any day on the line.

[Uplinker]

Originally Posted by AerocatS2A

............you should be able to do deal with a failure any day on the line.

And hopefully we all would, but realistically how does one stay at the peak of practice for the engine failures, explosive decompressions, double hydraulic failures etc. when they are only experienced every 6 months, if that?

I understand that some pilots used to be able to use their company’s SIM downtime to practice such things in their own time?

[Piltdown Man]

I am soon to do my last ever LPC/OPC. My preparation will consist of swotting up for the multiple guess questions and re-reading the SOP pages of how to handle the most likely failures. The format of the session will be almost certainly be “interesting” weather, possibly in icing conditions and a NOTAM that needs reading. I will take the least amount of fuel I can justify. There will be a minor malfunction during start or taxi. We will take our time and sort it out. It will be fixed the moment you have ticked the correct procedures. On departure we will have an engine failure or fire. We will return, do a single engine non-precision approach, a go-around and then manually flown precision approach or an NPA with vertical guidance. Then there will be a low viz bit. Randomly thrown in that lot will be a TCAS event, a fire, an airborne malfunction, a rejected take-off and possibly an evacuation. More or less it’s been like this for the last 20 years or so.

There shoud be no need to practice, good enough is good enough. It’s nice to “ace” events like this but there is no real need. So take your time and keep your aircraft in the middle of the sky, keep it trimmed (especially in yaw) and keep trying to hit the numbers.

PM

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by Uplinker

And hopefully we all would, but realistically how does one stay at the peak of practice for the engine failures, explosive decompressions, double hydraulic failures etc. when they are only experienced every 6 months, if that?

I understand that some pilots used to be able to use their company’s SIM downtime to practice such things in their own time?

I don’t have a problem with practice, but practice just prior to a prof check will give a false indication of the pilot’s true proficiency. Imagine if Pilot Bloggs prangs his first engine failure at each sim session but it’s ok because it’s a practice. Once he does the check he gets through ok. Now this pilot is clearly not proficient and you wouldn’t want to be a passenger with him when the **** hits the fan but he would have a consistent record of satisfactory checks. Sims are great for practice and training and unfortunately we don’t get to use them enough for that purpose, but it should be done after the check, not before. I like the idea above of having alternating training and checking sessions in the sim cycle.

[MCDU2]

Generally no practice as such. however, if a trend was emerging across the fleets from the previous seasons training/checking then they usually like to try and nip it in the bud. Each season the LPC/OPC alternates from Day 1 to Day 2 with the recurrent training/LOFT.

[Paulm1949]

Surely some of the emphasis should be on learning and self improvement rather than strict checking/testing! Making and then learning from mistakes in the sim is the best preventative measure to a real life cock-up.

Very similar case with manual flying too. some crews are worried about exceeding some limits and then being picked up by the QAR. therefore they settle for an easy life with the automation in.

IMHO the emphasis on both these areas is wrong.

[AerocatS2A]

Of course there should be training and practice. But you must be safe without the crutch of a “practice” first. If you can’t deal with a V1 cut without practice then you are in the wrong job. The sim should be used for training as much as possible but it should be separated from the check. Do the check first then do the training and practice.

[MCDU2]

I think that is one of the aims of evidence based training.

[Mach E Avelli]

After initial type rating, and after year or two in an airline, the average pilot can handle the expected V1 failure, rejected takeoff, engine-out approach and missed approach etc quite well, and as others have said, should be able to meet the standard without any warm up. I certainly see no need to rehearse these exercises prior to a check. They know what’s coming, and once they have been in the business a few years can even guess when it’s coming just by looking at the clock in the simulator. If there has been no RTO and time is almost up and the examiner does a fast reset for just one more take-off, no prizes for what will happen next.
Most pilots prepare for the check. Those that don’t - maybe they they get sent down the road; maybe they then get remedial training, maybe they are only allowed one more attempt without training - policies vary and even change according to who is running the training department, how short of pilots the airline is etc etc.
Whether the check is done before or after the training session is probably immaterial. What we, as trainers, should be doing is moving crews outside their traditional comfort zone of the expected. Use training time to look at accidents and incidents that have occurred in the past. Try to recreate in realistic scenarios a non jeopardy but educational session. Two hours per pilot every six months is too little to squander on dress rehearsals.

[Tail-take-off]

In my experience those pilots that manually fly the aircraft on a regular basis have very few problems with the manual flight elements of the check. Our company doesn’t schedule practice simulator sessions but, provided you can find someone qualified to operate the panel, you can book up any unused sim sessions if you wish.

The format of our LPC is currently an evaluation phase based on a short sector and run in real time. During this phase a number of LPC items will be covered (Cockpit prep, start up, departure/arrival procedures, and probably an approach). Subsequently remaining items are assessed as stand alone manoeuvres.