Min of 2 crews in the clockpit. Do you still do it?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Min of 2 crews in the cockpit. Do you still do it?
Hello Everyone,
After the Germanwings event, EASA recommended minimum 2 crews in the cockpit at all time. I was woundering if you airline is still following that rule? Since it’s a real hassle for the crews, especially the cabin crews and I beleive we can all agree that having one guy standing in the cockpit will not prevent the remaining pilot to crash the plane... So, what are we waiting for? I know some airlines has stopped that questionnable rule long time ago. In the company I work for, we just had an incident where the FO was in the toilet, captain in the cockpit discussing with the flight attendant, got distracted, missed an altitude clearance by ATC and another company traffic with similar call sign thaugt the ATC clearance was for them replied and start descending. Another good reason to remove that rule as it’s only creating distraction in the cockpit. The day I got upgraded, I stopped applying that rule for all the reasons mentionned above. Yes it’s against our SOP, I normally try to never breach the SOP except in that case for instance when I beleive safety is compromised.
I’m trying to push the management to remove that rule especially as we are very short on cabin crews.
I would be interested to know if your airline had stopped that rule. Please don’t comment if you are just going to judge my actions against SOP. Thank you.
After the Germanwings event, EASA recommended minimum 2 crews in the cockpit at all time. I was woundering if you airline is still following that rule? Since it’s a real hassle for the crews, especially the cabin crews and I beleive we can all agree that having one guy standing in the cockpit will not prevent the remaining pilot to crash the plane... So, what are we waiting for? I know some airlines has stopped that questionnable rule long time ago. In the company I work for, we just had an incident where the FO was in the toilet, captain in the cockpit discussing with the flight attendant, got distracted, missed an altitude clearance by ATC and another company traffic with similar call sign thaugt the ATC clearance was for them replied and start descending. Another good reason to remove that rule as it’s only creating distraction in the cockpit. The day I got upgraded, I stopped applying that rule for all the reasons mentionned above. Yes it’s against our SOP, I normally try to never breach the SOP except in that case for instance when I beleive safety is compromised.
I’m trying to push the management to remove that rule especially as we are very short on cabin crews.
I would be interested to know if your airline had stopped that rule. Please don’t comment if you are just going to judge my actions against SOP. Thank you.
Last edited by pineteam; 27th May 2018 at 16:19. Reason: typo
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You could explain the cabin crew that the airspace you are flying through is very busy and would appreciate if he/she would not disturb you. Ticks the SOP and safety boxes. Don't see what the shortage of cabin crews has to do with them entering the flight deck, though.
And yes, 2 persons in the flight deck rule still in force at my operator.
And yes, 2 persons in the flight deck rule still in force at my operator.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for your reply FlyingStone. We operate A321, some of them with 24 Business seats and sometimes only 4 cabin crews. It makes their tasks very challenging on a full loaded aircraft on short routes as applying this rule means one cabin crew will be in the cockpit while the other one is in the front galley. Thus no service for all the BC passengers. If you are doing a number 2 it’s really problematic. xD
Last edited by pineteam; 25th Apr 2018 at 08:37. Reason: typo.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It always was policy where I work, I’ve never known any different since 9/11. Distractions occur all the time, it’s up to you to maintain your discipline.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Swissair also removed that rule last year for safety reasons:
The action follows an extensive safety and security review which has concluded that the rule does not enhance fight safety and “actually introduces additional risks to daily operations in flight safety terms (such as the fact that the rule results in more and longer openings of the cockpit door),” the airline said.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/airline...-rule/43143890
The action follows an extensive safety and security review which has concluded that the rule does not enhance fight safety and “actually introduces additional risks to daily operations in flight safety terms (such as the fact that the rule results in more and longer openings of the cockpit door),” the airline said.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/airline...-rule/43143890
Some airlines went to having a “two on the flight deck at all times” rule and have kept it, some went to “ two on ...” and as has been said have now dropped it, and finally there are some airlines who never ever enforced the “two on..” Those airlines made their own case to EASA, and EASA agreed that what was being proposed was in compliance.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amblesidel
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really there is never really any need for flight crew with class one medicals to leave the flight deck on flights up to 3 hours. In the case of German Wings, why did the captain not have time to use the toilet on the turnaround. It really is simple, if you are taking your children on a long car journey, you always ensure they have used the toilet first.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Yes, and they never ever need another wee.
Notwithstanding the fact that everyone is different and, therefore, might need a piss before your 3 hour deadline excessive sitting is bad for your health.
Notwithstanding the fact that everyone is different and, therefore, might need a piss before your 3 hour deadline excessive sitting is bad for your health.
Really there is never really any need for flight crew with class one medicals to leave the flight deck on flights up to 3 hours. In the case of German Wings, why did the captain not have time to use the toilet on the turnaround. It really is simple, if you are taking your children on a long car journey, you always ensure they have used the toilet first.
As for "going before you set off", well easier said than done and "holding on" for 3 hours plus becomes interesting for the more elderly Class One holders or some flying with OMLs, Finally is there not medical advice that one should get up and move around/ stretch legs on a routine basis on longer flights?
I guess in an ideal world some think we should be bagged/catheterised and nappied before we get airborne and then hatches shut and locked...I guess it could be done ( cf. Gemini 7) but think of the loss of glamour..
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe nearly all german airlines have dropped that requirement after about a year with it. After a thorough safety review. The head of safety of one airline actually told me that the initial safety case indicated that introducing that requirement would not be the best idea, however due to public pressure they had to do it.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fortunately we do not (170’ish aircraft). And good riddance as well. This crackpot idea was kicked into the long grass as soon as we could. The intent was understandable but as it was, as another poster suggested, an ill considered policy that introduced a whole new set of risks without mitigatng against the one it was designed to defeat. But I expect nothing else from EASA.
PM
PM
