Flying from A to B with minimum fuel.
In the company I work for, simple answer is YES.
in our OMA it’s called, commit to stay. If you have an equal or safer option to stay at destination you can use your diversion fuel. We are advised to get an approach time prior to deciding. I cant understand the logic of diverting and arriving at the diversion with your minimum fuel,
Problem i see nowadays, people are afraid to make decisions can’t be wrong if you diverted is a simple answer.
Never actually had to, but have briefed it a few times.
in our OMA it’s called, commit to stay. If you have an equal or safer option to stay at destination you can use your diversion fuel. We are advised to get an approach time prior to deciding. I cant understand the logic of diverting and arriving at the diversion with your minimum fuel,
Problem i see nowadays, people are afraid to make decisions can’t be wrong if you diverted is a simple answer.
Never actually had to, but have briefed it a few times.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Victoria
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Hello everyone,
I would like to have your point of view on this case:
Imagine you are flying a commercial jet from A to B, flight time is 1h15m, A is your also your destination alternate and both airports are single runway only and weather is cavok on both airports.
Due to long taxi on the ground, you have burned more fuel than expected and once airbone you only have 5 min extra fuel. You are now on final at B airport and due to ATC mistake you have to perform a go around as the taking off aircraft is still on the runway.
Now obviously your extra would not be enough to shoot a second approach if you still wish to keep airport A as your destination alternate.
In that case, since weather is good, I would cancel airport A as alternate, which will give me more than 1h extra fuel and shoot a second approach at airport B and I don't need to declare minimum fuel as I will land comfortably with much more than 30 min of fuel in the tanks.
Now I know by the books to dispatch an aircraft without destination alternate, one of the conditions is that the airport must have 2 parallel runways. But as I understand this rule is only for dispatch conditions isn't it?
In the air, all those rules don't apply. From the EASA AIR LAW book:" The commander of an aeroplane has the final authority as to the disposition of the aircraft whilst in command.'' And it's up to the captain responsibility to ensure that the aircraft will land with not less than minimum fuel. So as long as he does not land with less than 30 min of fuel in the tanks, he is not breaking any law. That's how I understand it.
Cause some guys tell me that in that case, I should immediately divert to the alternate. But the alternate is 1h15min away, single runway with now zero extra fuel. Meaning that I would be in minimum fuel immediately and if I need to do a go around or any delay I would be in mayday fuel. So I don't understand how this could be even a consideration...
The airlaw is not very clear about it IMHO. And I believe lots of people are very confused about it. So many diversions happened when they ran out of extra time while they were less than 10 min flight from their destination.
Please share your thaughts about it.
Thank you.
I would like to have your point of view on this case:
Imagine you are flying a commercial jet from A to B, flight time is 1h15m, A is your also your destination alternate and both airports are single runway only and weather is cavok on both airports.
Due to long taxi on the ground, you have burned more fuel than expected and once airbone you only have 5 min extra fuel. You are now on final at B airport and due to ATC mistake you have to perform a go around as the taking off aircraft is still on the runway.
Now obviously your extra would not be enough to shoot a second approach if you still wish to keep airport A as your destination alternate.
In that case, since weather is good, I would cancel airport A as alternate, which will give me more than 1h extra fuel and shoot a second approach at airport B and I don't need to declare minimum fuel as I will land comfortably with much more than 30 min of fuel in the tanks.
Now I know by the books to dispatch an aircraft without destination alternate, one of the conditions is that the airport must have 2 parallel runways. But as I understand this rule is only for dispatch conditions isn't it?
In the air, all those rules don't apply. From the EASA AIR LAW book:" The commander of an aeroplane has the final authority as to the disposition of the aircraft whilst in command.'' And it's up to the captain responsibility to ensure that the aircraft will land with not less than minimum fuel. So as long as he does not land with less than 30 min of fuel in the tanks, he is not breaking any law. That's how I understand it.
Cause some guys tell me that in that case, I should immediately divert to the alternate. But the alternate is 1h15min away, single runway with now zero extra fuel. Meaning that I would be in minimum fuel immediately and if I need to do a go around or any delay I would be in mayday fuel. So I don't understand how this could be even a consideration...
The airlaw is not very clear about it IMHO. And I believe lots of people are very confused about it. So many diversions happened when they ran out of extra time while they were less than 10 min flight from their destination.
Please share your thaughts about it.
Thank you.
Youve already started your descent and had to go around due to ATC. Legally you have to land with 30 minutes fuel( final reserve). The 2 runway thing only applies with a "predicted minimum fuel state" whilst in the cruise where i am (HK).
weather is fine at your destination so continue for another 2 approaches if needed-you went around due ATC (not due weather or being unstable remember).
I would be declaring "minimum fuel" as you can no longer commit to your alternate- should any unforeseen ATC delay happen.
Make sure you have 30 minutes in the tanks on landing. No alternate on the FMGC should help you with how long you have still.
Planning minima does not apply as you dispatched once the aircraft started moving under its own power and you have left the cruise phase.
