Upper airspace forecast
Upper airspace forecast
Hi,
In relation to the forecast values in the FMC for a 737, I'm looking to learn where you guys get the info on cloud levels during descent so I can determine when (or if) I will be turning on anti-ice. The METAR only seems to cover up to 10,000.
Thanks.
In relation to the forecast values in the FMC for a 737, I'm looking to learn where you guys get the info on cloud levels during descent so I can determine when (or if) I will be turning on anti-ice. The METAR only seems to cover up to 10,000.
Thanks.
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I don't fly Boeing so am unfamiliar with the 737 anti-icing systems but on the Airbus we utilise the anti-ice system based on defined temperatures and not just observable moisture/cloud. The procedures we follow run along these lines......
ENG Anti-Ice should be turned on when OAT (on ground and for takeoff) or TAT (in-flight) drops below 10C and there is visible moisture (fog, mist, clouds, rain, contaminated runway, visibility one mile/1500m or less) in the atmosphere. The engine anti-ice must be on for all ground and flight Ops when icing conditions exist or are anticipated, except during climb and cruise when SAT is below -40C. ENG Anti-Ice should be turned on before and during a descent in which icing conditions are expected, even if SAT below -40C.
ENG Anti-Ice should be turned on when OAT (on ground and for takeoff) or TAT (in-flight) drops below 10C and there is visible moisture (fog, mist, clouds, rain, contaminated runway, visibility one mile/1500m or less) in the atmosphere. The engine anti-ice must be on for all ground and flight Ops when icing conditions exist or are anticipated, except during climb and cruise when SAT is below -40C. ENG Anti-Ice should be turned on before and during a descent in which icing conditions are expected, even if SAT below -40C.
Thanks! You say "eng anti ice should be turned on before and during a descent in which icing conditions are expected", how do you determine if icing conditions are expected? Thanks!
I'm looking to learn where you guys get the info on cloud levels during descent so I can determine when (or if) I will be turning on anti-ice. The METAR only seems to cover up to 10,000.
Dazmundo
Can't talk for the 737 but what follows is posted with the benefit of having flown other Boeing types..
As far as the anti ice system itself is concerned if it's working OK automatically (the detectors and the plumbing) we leave it alone to do it's own thing....there's no FMC entry required or switching required. If you are using manual anti-ice ( on an older Boeing or on a modern one if the ice detection system is inop) you turn the thing on manually when you see you are encountering icing conditions. It's pretty much what OhNoCB said..for descents it's look out the window, use mark 1 eyeball, and monitor the temperatures ( which Dave alluded to).
As far as the programming of the FMC itself is concerned TBH we rarely bother with entering an "icing level" in the FMC ( I accept others may do otherwise) - on the Boeings I have flown all that FMC entry does is modify the calculation of top of decent point and the descent profile (makes it shallower) to cater for the higher idle RPM you get with the engine Anti Ice on, i.e. the FMC entry only effects number crunching in the FMC, it doesn't have any effect on the operation of the actual icing system.... ...... if you do then end up with engine anti ice on in the descent and a higher idle RPM, and hence a shallower than ideal descent you can always use speedbrake (
) to get back on profile.
In short the FMC entry isn't "mission critical".
Can't talk for the 737 but what follows is posted with the benefit of having flown other Boeing types..
As far as the anti ice system itself is concerned if it's working OK automatically (the detectors and the plumbing) we leave it alone to do it's own thing....there's no FMC entry required or switching required. If you are using manual anti-ice ( on an older Boeing or on a modern one if the ice detection system is inop) you turn the thing on manually when you see you are encountering icing conditions. It's pretty much what OhNoCB said..for descents it's look out the window, use mark 1 eyeball, and monitor the temperatures ( which Dave alluded to).
As far as the programming of the FMC itself is concerned TBH we rarely bother with entering an "icing level" in the FMC ( I accept others may do otherwise) - on the Boeings I have flown all that FMC entry does is modify the calculation of top of decent point and the descent profile (makes it shallower) to cater for the higher idle RPM you get with the engine Anti Ice on, i.e. the FMC entry only effects number crunching in the FMC, it doesn't have any effect on the operation of the actual icing system.... ...... if you do then end up with engine anti ice on in the descent and a higher idle RPM, and hence a shallower than ideal descent you can always use speedbrake (
) to get back on profile.In short the FMC entry isn't "mission critical".
Last edited by wiggy; 31st May 2017 at 10:42.
