Logging hours and pilot function
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Logging hours and pilot function
Greetings aviators. An old timer needs some help please.
This is mainly for fun to prove to my community how complicated logging hours CAN be in certain circumstances that are not clear cut.
Please do not think too much about it and let me know what you think.
I have some scenarios below. You can assume all pilots have ATPL's.
All I am looking for is who you think logs which pilot function time.
Doesn't matter about PIC/Commander as that of course will be designated by company. So you can assume the LT will be PIC/Commander.
It is the pilot function time of each individual that I am interested in.
Thanks for taking part. It very important research.
Answers:
P1 / P2/ PICUS / DUAL / or something else or maybe?
1) Two captains are flying together. (1 x Line Trainer 1 x Non Line trainer)
Line Trainer is sitting in the right seat
Left Seat Captain is PF.
Pilot function Time for both ?
2) FO and LT Captain are flying together. Line Trainer is sitting in the right seat
FO Left Seat.
Left Seat FO is PF.
Pilot function Time for both?
3) FO and LT Captain are flying together. Line Trainer is sitting in the Left seat
FO Right Seat.
FO is PF.
Pilot function Time for both ?
Thanks everyone. To make life easier. Copy and paste this template below with your answer as applicable.
Scenario 1 ) Left seat Function time ( ) Right Seat Function Time ( )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( ) Right Seat Function Time ( )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( ) Right Seat Function Time ( )
This is mainly for fun to prove to my community how complicated logging hours CAN be in certain circumstances that are not clear cut.
Please do not think too much about it and let me know what you think.
I have some scenarios below. You can assume all pilots have ATPL's.
All I am looking for is who you think logs which pilot function time.
Doesn't matter about PIC/Commander as that of course will be designated by company. So you can assume the LT will be PIC/Commander.
It is the pilot function time of each individual that I am interested in.
Thanks for taking part. It very important research.
Answers:
P1 / P2/ PICUS / DUAL / or something else or maybe?
1) Two captains are flying together. (1 x Line Trainer 1 x Non Line trainer)
Line Trainer is sitting in the right seat
Left Seat Captain is PF.
Pilot function Time for both ?
2) FO and LT Captain are flying together. Line Trainer is sitting in the right seat
FO Left Seat.
Left Seat FO is PF.
Pilot function Time for both?
3) FO and LT Captain are flying together. Line Trainer is sitting in the Left seat
FO Right Seat.
FO is PF.
Pilot function Time for both ?
Thanks everyone. To make life easier. Copy and paste this template below with your answer as applicable.
Scenario 1 ) Left seat Function time ( ) Right Seat Function Time ( )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( ) Right Seat Function Time ( )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( ) Right Seat Function Time ( )
Scenario 1 ) Left seat Function time (PIC ) Right Seat Function Time (Co-pilot )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time (PICUS) Right Seat Function Time (PIC )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time (PIC ) Right Seat Function Time (PICUS )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time (PICUS) Right Seat Function Time (PIC )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time (PIC ) Right Seat Function Time (PICUS )
In my part of the world
Scenario 1 ) Left seat Function time ( picus) Right Seat Function Time (pic )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( picus) Right Seat Function Time (pic ) Note: F/O would not be in the left seat unless he was going through an upgrade, or previously qualified as Capt.
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( pic) Right Seat Function Time (sic )
Scenario 1 ) Left seat Function time ( picus) Right Seat Function Time (pic )
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( picus) Right Seat Function Time (pic ) Note: F/O would not be in the left seat unless he was going through an upgrade, or previously qualified as Capt.
Scenario 2 ) Left seat Function time ( pic) Right Seat Function Time (sic )
Last edited by oceancrosser; 4th Mar 2017 at 20:06.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE England
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(European answer) It's amazing how complex people can make this. I follow this rule:
- Designated aircraft commander (nominated by company, who signs the tech log) - P1
- Second in command (irrespective of rank) - P2
Pilot flying is simply pilot flying. He doesn't assume command just because he's handling the controls. Similarly the commander doesn't cease to be P1 just because somebody else is handling the controls. It has no bearing on who is P1 or P2.
The seat being occupied is irrelevant.
PICUS need only be used on the (comparatively rare) occasion that the P2 is for whatever reason acting as though he/she were the commander without intervention on the grounds of safety, be it for command upgrade training OR (certainly in Europe) as a 'work around' to help co-pilots without the requisite PIC time for ATPL issue get their PIC hours up.
Hence your situations are impossible to answer as there is missing information; but in general terms in all of your situations - the legal commander is P1, the other pilot is P2. If the flight is part of a course of training in which the second-in-command is for whatever reason acting as P1 without the intervention of the commander on the grounds of safety, the roles are P1 and PICUS.
To emphasise the point, in scenario 1 it could be EITHER that the LHS Capt is P1 and the RHS LTC is P2 (right-seat qualified, called off standby as no co-pilots available maybe?), alternatively, it could be that the RHS LTC is designated commander (and hence P1) and the LHS Captain is PICUS as part of some specific training, OR depending on what is allowable in the operator's Ops Manual it could be that the RHS LTC is P1 and the LHS Capt is simply acting as P2 (rare, but not impossible).
- Designated aircraft commander (nominated by company, who signs the tech log) - P1
- Second in command (irrespective of rank) - P2
Pilot flying is simply pilot flying. He doesn't assume command just because he's handling the controls. Similarly the commander doesn't cease to be P1 just because somebody else is handling the controls. It has no bearing on who is P1 or P2.
The seat being occupied is irrelevant.
PICUS need only be used on the (comparatively rare) occasion that the P2 is for whatever reason acting as though he/she were the commander without intervention on the grounds of safety, be it for command upgrade training OR (certainly in Europe) as a 'work around' to help co-pilots without the requisite PIC time for ATPL issue get their PIC hours up.
Hence your situations are impossible to answer as there is missing information; but in general terms in all of your situations - the legal commander is P1, the other pilot is P2. If the flight is part of a course of training in which the second-in-command is for whatever reason acting as P1 without the intervention of the commander on the grounds of safety, the roles are P1 and PICUS.
To emphasise the point, in scenario 1 it could be EITHER that the LHS Capt is P1 and the RHS LTC is P2 (right-seat qualified, called off standby as no co-pilots available maybe?), alternatively, it could be that the RHS LTC is designated commander (and hence P1) and the LHS Captain is PICUS as part of some specific training, OR depending on what is allowable in the operator's Ops Manual it could be that the RHS LTC is P1 and the LHS Capt is simply acting as P2 (rare, but not impossible).
