Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > Questions
Reload this Page >

VNAV only approach

Wikiposts
Search
Questions If you are a professional pilot or your work involves professional aviation please use this forum for questions. Enthusiasts, please use the 'Spectators Balcony' forum.

VNAV only approach

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 24th Feb 2017, 13:33
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Age: 41
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
VNAV only approach

hello
Could someone help answer this question please. Can you fly a VNAV only approach? I know you can do LNAV and LNAV/VNAV, but never heard of VNAV only, is this something you can do?
ASHTAM is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2017, 13:52
  #2 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Age: 41
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yes...i have seen on some state charts that they publish VNAV minima approach only is this possible?? the minima is lower than a LNAV why is that
ASHTAM is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2017, 14:11
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 71
Posts: 3,410
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
There has to be some lateral guidance. Any chart references
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2017, 14:42
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 36
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
• Non-precision Approach:

– Lateral Navigation (LNAV):

– Localiser Performance (LP) minima line

• APV BARO:

– LNAV/VNAV (vertical navigation);

– SBAS:

And finally - RNP AR APCH
Driver 170 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2017, 15:03
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,548
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
As has been said there must be some lateral guidance...
I have seen on some state charts that they publish VNAV minima approach only is this possible?? the minima is lower than a LNAV why is that
We need an example of what you are looking at but I'll offer up an example such as:

"JFK RNAV (GPS) Y 31 R"...

I'll have a stab at this but more than willing to be corrected.

1. Looking at the JFK plate (which you could do if I could paste it here) it's implicit right from the start that you are going to use ( in our case), LNAV "coupled" to GPS for the lateral mode, to comply with the RNAV (GPS) bit that is at the top of the plate and above all the minima.

2. The specific minima labelled RNAV GPS VNAV" minima (370 feet,) makes no mention of LNAV but the assumption has to be that the modes to be used are LNAV (lateral) / VNAV.

3. The " RNAV GPS LNAV" minima (460) is for LNAV plus some vertical mode other than VNAV (e.g; V/S) and is for use e..g; when cold weather takes you below the minimum uncompensatedd BARO VNAV temperature.

Last edited by wiggy; 25th Feb 2017 at 14:27.
wiggy is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2017, 15:07
  #6 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To cite such a concern without providing the specific approach procedure is a bit suspect.
aterpster is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2017, 13:10
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Village of Santo Poco
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Surely, aterpster, this isn't the first suspect thing you've seen around here...
Amadis of Gaul is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2017, 13:38
  #8 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just one of many. Seems to have gotten worse though over the years.
aterpster is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2017, 13:43
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm thinking pure technical; not legal nor minima, and B737NG. Could the a/c operate in VNAV & VOR/LOC or HDGSEL for either a LOC ONLY or NDB? I've never tried and not be allowed to, but they are separate channels?? Maybe next time in the sim?
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2017, 14:24
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,548
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Certainly looks like my poorly worded effort was a waste of time - should have known better.

Somebody looking at Flt sim "plates"?
wiggy is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2017, 15:43
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 71
Posts: 3,410
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Ah, Rat5, the old NDB/GS approach, remember well from the days of carting checks around in a Baron with questionable radios.
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2017, 17:12
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
IF the question is can you use VNAV on a non precision approach whilst using VOR/LOC then the answer is yes. YOu don't need to use LNAV for it to work. This is true for a 737NG.
OhNoCB is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2017, 08:32
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: FL390
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Could the a/c operate in VNAV & VOR/LOC or HDGSEL for either a LOC ONLY or NDB?
VORLOC & VNAV is SOP for many for LOC Only approaches.

Our SOP is V/S for vertical path if HDG SEL has to be used for an approach (e.g. FMC error, bad coding, etc) however the aircraft will quite happily follow a VNAV path if its coded in the FMC if you use VNAV.
737aviator is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2017, 09:07
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That is what I would have expected, but previous company SOP's were LNAV/VNAV or HDGSEL + V/S. I wondered why we couldn't do use VNAV for vertical. Never did get a reply. I wonder if the questioner had forgotten to include a roll mode in the question?
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2017, 10:53
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Even IAN uses something similar to LOC/VNAV, it uses LOC and GP, which is the FMC computed glide path.
Denti is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2017, 21:31
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Age: 41
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
thanks all for the replies,
I can't think off the top of my head the exact airport (s) that i'm talking about but I can say one is Indonesia and the other is Denmark. I will get the exact ICAO code and procedure when i get to work tomorrow. What i can say is that i know it is an RNAV (GNSS) chart and the minima that the state is already showng is an LNAV and also VNAV only, with the minima being lower than the LNAV....

i will get the exact airport for you
ASHTAM is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2017, 07:32
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Age: 41
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
the airports in question are Denmark EKSB RNAV (GNSS) RWY 14 and the other airport is WITK in Indonesia. Both of these show VNAV only minima..
ASHTAM is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2017, 08:48
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Zulu Time Zone
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hello ASHTAM

Yes you are correct. It seems different countries around the world have not standardised the way they name procedure minima on their charts. I think you can assume that VNAV minima are the same thing as LNAV/VNAV minima and apply to an APV approach using either WAAS or baro-VNAV for vertical guidance.
oggers is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2017, 14:38
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Age: 41
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
thanks oggers.
ASHTAM is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2017, 22:45
  #20 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here are the IAPs in question:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
EKBS RNAV RWY 14.jpg (260.4 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg
WIKT RNAV 27 A AND B.jpg (220.2 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg
WIKT RNAV 27 C AND D.jpg (220.4 KB, 109 views)
aterpster is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.