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override on cockpit door

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override on cockpit door

Old 2nd Apr 2015, 23:53
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override on cockpit door

Sorry if this is a dumb question....
WRT the recent incident and the ability of PF to lock and override external code entry. Is it a reasonable idea to provide a keypad on cockpit side for the non flying pilot to enter a four digit random code which then allows override of cockpit lock switch upon reentry? Once only use and code entry required to open door if either seat occupied and one seat empty. Simple solution that could at least raise the level of ingenuity to override beyond a simple switch.
OZBUSDRIVER is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2015, 00:00
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It's not a dumb question, but that system won't work. The door has a mechanical lock as well, once it is dead-lock no way you can open from outside. The door has been engineered to prevent threats from outside, not inside.
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Old 3rd Apr 2015, 00:42
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I like it. Remove the deadbolt. Done.
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Old 3rd Apr 2015, 01:48
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Sounds like a great idea. It's just a matter of redesigning the current CDLS and it's done.
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Old 3rd Apr 2015, 05:59
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Something akin to a bag's combination lock? So set a code before exiting cockpit, and use it for re-entry? That's a good idea me thinks, worth considering. Perhaps it can hold 2 or 3 combinations current & any 1 can be used once for re-entry (to cater for an augmented crew)

Just have to sort out what happens if a pilot outside the cockpit is held at knife-point. Would he/she refuse to divulge or relent?
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Old 3rd Apr 2015, 08:44
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This problem has no solution. Either the cockpit door is beachable or not. There is no in-between or half measure that allows forced access under certain conditions.

Let us not forget the reason this was brought in. Terrorists are still our biggest threat. The fact that we are even debating the door issue is testament to how effective it has been. You need to decide what you want to defend against and go with that, you cannot have it both ways.
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Old 3rd Apr 2015, 11:30
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Agreed Kenny. Do we want to keep people out or not? If there is someone outside the cockpit who has the ability to get in then that can be used by a terrorist to get in.
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Old 3rd Apr 2015, 21:27
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And then a hijacker force the pilot who is out of cockpit to tell/open the door.
Just don't care about doors, locks, codes etc.
The unsolvable problem is that, IF one of the pilots want to crash the aircraft , NOTHING can stop him. Even if the other pilot is in his seat. If a pilot want and have accept that he is going to die....everybody are going to die. END
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Old 3rd Apr 2015, 22:17
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The premise of your argument would have you opening the door to prevent the early death of a crew member...

The ability to open a door still does not mean a crew member would give in to a terrorist. The outcome if which is now common knowledge....die on your knees or die fighting, your choice!

My point is to prevent the recent outcome from easily happening again. The psychology of this surely cannot be hidden. Trust between crew members? Having the ability to override is about not relinquishing your command.
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Old 4th Apr 2015, 00:35
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The premise of your argument would have you opening the door to prevent the early death of a crew member...
Exactly. I can't see how you can possibly guarantee that every pilot who steps out of the flight deck will be prepared to die to keep the door locked.

You need to decide whether you want to stop 9/11 from happening again or the Germanwings from happening again, you can't have both.
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Old 4th Apr 2015, 05:57
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The simple premise fails if a single pilot is allowed to occupy a cockpit in front of an IRCD, are we simple enough to call a pilot who wants to sink a ship with hundreds of innocent people at no control of their fate a terrorist? He may have no agenda other than suicide and a complete level of apathy for the people he takes with him. Simply a selfish agenda to make a big name for himself so others may have empathy for his sick reasoning. Sure the IRCD may have deterred possible action by terrorists but the fact is it to this day has only contributed to an act of genocide.

Simple and proven procedures may have prevented this. You create any measure of safety it certain that someone will find a way to take advantage of or circumvent it's intent.

1 out of thousands/shit happens et cetera, it is impossible to protect all good willed citizens of this earth from evil.
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Old 4th Apr 2015, 13:47
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Simply a selfish agenda to make a big name for himself so others may have empathy for his sick reasoning
Already forgot his name and so will probably 99.9% of the world as soon as the media have nothing else to fish/blabla about...
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