Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > Questions
Reload this Page >

Comments on this landing welcomed

Wikiposts
Search
Questions If you are a professional pilot or your work involves professional aviation please use this forum for questions. Enthusiasts, please use the 'Spectators Balcony' forum.

Comments on this landing welcomed

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 4th Mar 2015, 08:51
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Comments on this landing welcomed

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum, but I am seeking the opinions of airline pilots.

I don't know if this video has been discussed here before, but it's led to a bit of 'difference of opinion', so the views of the experts on here would be welcome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-NPkZRAS9Y

One point of view is that it should have been a go-around as the touchdown is very late so obviously too fast at threshold.

Another POV is that the extra speed was inevitable due the terrain and subsequent approach pattern, and holding off and 'floating' to bleed off the speed before touchdown was good airmanship.

What do Prooners think?
Shaggy Sheep Driver is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 09:42
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: EGNX
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
It was a very late landing, but to be fair to the pilots the runway is ill equipped with touchdown or distance-to-go markers making a judgement far more difficult.
Doors to Automatic is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 09:46
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: At the end of the Met line
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Press-on-itis. That was a horrendous float, and looks like they used up well over half of the LDA whilst airborne. Can only imagine how quickly the end of the runway was appearing in the windshield. Bleed off speed on the ground, not by holding off.
cheesycol is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 09:48
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Smogsville
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Should have been a GA, however if you've got no fuel perhaps stop at all costs was the aim.

Two straight from the Boeing FCTM.

Floating above the runway before touchdown must be avoided because it uses a large portion of the available runway. The airplane should be landed as near the normal touchdown point as possible. Deceleration rate on the runway is approximately three times greater than in the air.
SMOC is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 09:51
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Glorious West Sussex
Age: 76
Posts: 1,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Floating is not good airmanship.. airliners only stop with the wheels on the ground and the brakes applied.
No need to be fair to the pilots.. they should have gone around. They were very very lucky to get away with it.
TyroPicard is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 09:53
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 74
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Well, at least they all walked away from it !

Seriously, my admiration to the pilot. Maybe he should have gone round, but he got it down safely at what is an extremely difficult airport. Hats off to him !
kcockayne is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 10:26
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,556
Received 74 Likes on 43 Posts
Bubbers 44 will have something to say about that!
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 10:29
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: netherlands
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
NO. Not hats of to him. Especially in difficult airports with short runways, you land in the touchdown zone or go around.
They stopped using maximum braking on a dry runway with nothing to spare.
So instead of hats of, I would say shame on them.
sleeper is online now  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 10:51
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: I used to know
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Agreed, no hat's off.
Once if became obvious that they had floated past the touchdown zone they should have gone around.
They reached the end of the runway still at some speed and were extremely lucky to be able to turn off. Any number of variables, if different, could have caused an excursion.
A difficult approach should be managed correctly so as to achieve a touchdown at the correct point on the runway. It should not be used as an excuse!
PT6Driver is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 10:57
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No admiration for the pilots, reckless press-on-itis.... go-around was the only option.... would like to have known how hot the brakes became afterwards
Smudger is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 11:13
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 67
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Very sporty!

Had a landing like that downhill, learning to fly. Fortunately I had the CFI in the seat next to me insisting that I hold the stick fully back and brake firmly only after the nose wheel dropped. Stopped with a hundred yards to spare, but left to my own devices, would have gone through a row of parked aircraft and a hedge.

I learned that day just how quick you could stop once all three wheels were on the ground and the wing was fully stalled and how long you would float if you tried to follow the ground downhill.
G0ULI is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 11:26
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Oop North, UK
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GOULI - sounds like the instructor should have initiated a go around.
As for the post in question - Hats Off yes ...... As he is marched into the chief pilots office for a bollocking!
foxmoth is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 11:30
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Montreal
Age: 53
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GA style, came in too fast. They simply blow it.

Hats off for the guys in video below. This is a routinely job:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x36oAfY6anM
_Phoenix_ is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 12:37
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,816
Received 201 Likes on 93 Posts
02 at Tegucigalpa is one runway you definitely don't want to overrun:

DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 12:41
  #15 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
They should show this during type & recurrency training.

Then ask why did the crew continue even though they knew it was risky and becoming more and more unsafe.
An interesting discussion should then begin.....

Learn from other people's mistakes, as you will not live long enough to make them all yourself.
parkfell is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 12:42
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 3,040
Received 26 Likes on 10 Posts
That should buff out.
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 13:02
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 67
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Foxmoth

A go around would have been much more risky with very low airspeed and trying to outclimb rising ground and a row of pylons. I learned a lot that day. Don't get yourself in that situation in the first place but if you do, deal with the situation calmly and logically. Make the right control inputs and let the plane do its stuff. The CFI was ex WW2 RAF, so when he gave instructions, I listened.
G0ULI is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 11:21
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Sunrise Senior Living
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Facts: LDA RW02 1664m/5459ft, elev 3306ft, PAPI 5.3 degrees, slight downslope.
Briefing: TEM?
mcdhu is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 11:34
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Tree
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Who needs runway markings?? You either put the thing down ASAP after crossing the R/W threshold or you go around, period. That pilot burnt up far too much concrete, before touch down. If he was carrying the extra speed for the bank, there was plenty of time to get the excess speed bled off, between leveling the wings and before the touch down.
Sop_Monkey is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 19:49
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The back end of nowhere!
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I entirely agree with SOP monkey. That is quite atrocious.
PSF2J is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.