current time indicator?

[StringOh]

Hello, folks,

I am a graduate student who conducts researches about flight deck display design. I am exploring a new display design for required time of arrival (RTA) operation at NextGen stage. I believe not many pilots have executed RTA operations so far, but it will be the fundamental tasks for airliner pilots in the near future.

While pilots fly with temporal operations, MCDU shows the RTA page with UTC indication. However, as far as I know, flight deck displays for the current operational environment do not indicate the current time on any display unit. So my questions are

- Does this mean pilots do not need to check the current time during flying; only need to check ETA for the next waypoint as indicated on ND instead?

- How do you say that ND presents the UTC all the time? Will it be helpful for pilots to monitor the temporal situations while executing RTA operations in the NextGen stage?

[kharmael]

Are you asking if there is a clock anywhere on the flight deck?

[StringOh]

Yes. But the UTC can be different from the current time in the specific area as you know.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Flippin' eck!

[kharmael]

All international Aviation is done in UTC, there is no need for local times until you step off the aircraft and adjust your watch to see if the 'local facilities' are still open.

In terms of 'RTA' or 'TOT' (Time on Target) then military people work to those on a daily basis. It is always done in UTC, there is no need for added confusion of different time zones. If you want to know the local time in flight then you get your smartphone out, or simply figure out the time zone difference and use your head.

[RTN11]

The turboprop I fly has a wind up utc indicator, which I set by the fms at the start of the shift.

You need current time for fuel checks, but I usually look at my wrist for that.

I don't think utc needs to be too prominent, the fms usually stays on a page showing time to run and eta and that's all that relevant to atc.

[Denti]

One clock for the CPT and FO respectively, both slaved to the UTC time derived from the GPSs. Displays dashes until the GPS have a position and time. And of course it is on the CDU for the FMC and on the NAV Display, however there is absolutely no local time displayed anywhere except on the aircraft mobile phone (and that is usually off by quite a bit).

[StringOh]

I might have confused you. I mean whether pilots want to know the universal time during flying in order to meet the scheduled time of arrival, not the local times. The RTA page on FMS indicates ETA and RTA. Pilots can monitor the time error between the two, and control ownship speed to meet RTAs at every waypoints. In this operational situations, ETA and RTA are indicated with universal time format. I wonder if the indication of universal current time (UTC) on ND will be helpful for pilots while checking universal form ETA and RTA. And even regardless of RTA operations, I wonder if commercial pilots do not need to check universal current time (UTC) during flying.

[Tinstaafl]

If I need an ETA for a destination I display the flight plan page - which has ETAs on it - on one of the GPSs. If I have a requirement to be somewhere by a certain time (Time On Target, as the mil. blokes say) then I play silly buggers with the power until ETA=TOT.

In most of the planes I fly, I have 2 x GPS each with time (selectable between UTC & whatever I want) & flight plan displays, a MFD with flight plan & time shown in local & UTC, pilot & co-pilot clocks, my watch which shows both UTC & local, his (or her) watch, and our cellphones. Not sure, but I think the EHSI in one plane can also show time. Not sure about the last one - I've had it set for what I want last 5 years.

I'm really struggling to understand why I'd need yet another time display.

[MarkerInbound]

121.305 (for US airline operations)-

No person may operate an airplane unless it is equipped with the following flight and navigational instruments and equipment:

(c) A sweep-second hand clock (or approved equivalent).

[Denti]

I might be slightly confused, i'm quite familiar with that, however i do not really understand the problem. RTA operation is nothing new and has been done for quite some time, especially in those areas of the world with night curfews like for example some parts of europe. ATC doesn't really like the effects RTA flying has as directs will change the enroute speed based on RTA criteria.

The time displays as well as the information given by the FMC is more than sufficient, at least on my simple little 737.

Here a rather bad picture of the setup on that plane without the information available on the CDU which is more than enough as well.

[Clandestino]

You who have thought that children of magenta are bad; meet children of Google. They can find any data but can make sense of none.

However, as far as I know, flight deck displays for the current operational environment do not indicate the current time on any display unit.

It's not "current" it is local time. There is current UTC too!

I mean whether pilots want to know the universal time during flying in order to meet the scheduled time of arrival, not the local times.

Airlines generally work with UTC. Local time is for PA only.

I wonder if the indication of universal current time (UTC) on ND will be helpful for pilots while checking universal form ETA and RTA.

No. We already have clocks indicating UTC in airliners' flightdecks.

I wonder if commercial pilots do not need to check universal current time (UTC) during flying.

We do need to check actual time of passing the navigation fix against the navigation log and we perform it using UTC.

[bfisk]

Move along...

[MarkerInbound]

There's your problem. You have a "clock." You don't have a "Current Time Indicator." I see you really have 2 clocks. This would be a "Clock System." What you are going to need is a "Current Time Indication System."

Ah, what was the question?

[StringOh]

Okay, folks,
I realized my questions looked ridiculous in pilots' point of view. I am not a pilot (only took some flight lessons with Cessna 172 before). As some of you replied, I saw the clock in the cockpit now. I thought I studied much about cockpits, but actually not enough. I didn't google "clock in the cockpit" before making the question. Only googled "current time indication, cockpit". I found nothing with the words.

So therefore,
Pilots' gaze may come and go between the clock in the cockpit and MCDU when handling temporal operations (e.g., try to meet ETA to the scheduled time of arrival in the destination airport). So we don't need to worry about the temporal processing with flight deck display (comparison between ETA or RTA and the current time), and the current sole ETA indication on ND is just okay for temporal processing, RIGHT? Maybe no need to add UTC current time in ND. That was my second question.

It seems that we don't have serious problem in using CDU to conduct future mandatory RTA operations. Still I research about potential problems and possible solution in the temporal operations. In the researcher's point of view, reducing human gaze trajectory to monitor information will be beneficial. An research idea of integrating time information on ND is for the benefit. I will appreciate if you guys can tell me how you feel about the idea. Also, if you personally find any potential problem in conducting any kind of temporal operation, please reveal.

Thank you very much folks for your friendly replies. And thank you Clandestino for your rudeness.

[Bealzebub]

I think you are trying to complicate something that is very simple.

What do you mean by current time? The valid time for virtually all aviation related operations is UTC. Therefore that is for intents and purposes the current time.

Local time is a variable and often an abstract one at that. UTC is constant.

In the researcher's point of view, reducing human gaze trajectory to monitor information will be beneficial. An research idea of integrating time information on ND is for the benefit. I will appreciate if you guys can tell me how you feel about the idea

Do you really talk like this? Time information is available on the clocks, and if I adjust my gaze trajectory to my left wrist, also on my watch. The clocks feed the temporal information to the FMC's. I am not sure what problem you think exists, but I suspect it doesn't, with or without the gobbledegook.

[BOAC]

StringOh - I suspect you are not aware that the page/pages on the MCDU which display flight progress have the 'current' UTC arrival time at destination also, so apart from the need to monitor flight progress past waypoints and to determine when it is meal time, 'current time' is less important to us.

[Tinstaafl]

Cluttering the display with unnecessary information is not a benefit.

[kharmael]

StringOh,

Let me break down my original reply further so there is no confusion.

All international aviation is conducted using UTC

This means that the clocks in the aircraft are in UTC, the FMS is programmed in UTC, the RTA/ TOT demanded by the operating authority is in UTC, all official radio transmissions are made in UTC.

The FMS/ MCDU will give the estimated time at all waypoints (including arrival time at destination) in UTC and also any correction required to achieve that time (something that might be a surprise to you based on your posts...?)

Nobody gives a flying fig about local time/ current time (or any time that isn't UTC)

WRT looking at the clock vs looking at the MCDU and the 'gaze trajectory' It's not really something that an airliner cares about since they aren't exactly maxed out enough to not be able to glance at a clock. In aircraft with HUDs the timing delta (ahead or behind time) is often shown , but not the actual time (in UTC of course)

[BOAC]

Nobody gives a flying fig about local time/ current time (or any time that isn't UTC)

- not strictly true, having several times had a bunch of *** ***** pax (nationality redacted because....) demanding to know local sunset so they could 'do their thing' in the cabin.