Innocent 747 Pilot Dubbed 'Security risk' sues BA
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This POV tends to blame everything on Western interference in the ME. It hopes to validate the position by suggesting that even the terrorist threat is a game instigated by the West.
The same people believe that millions of ordinary people are like sheep (sheeple is a term commonly used), blindly believing what the authorities and media tell them.
The same people believe that millions of ordinary people are like sheep (sheeple is a term commonly used), blindly believing what the authorities and media tell them.
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Islamic tradition allows for negotiated settlements only to further the ultimate goal of Islamic conquest.
Islamic legal authorities allow the killing of non-combatants in the furtherance of Islamic conquest.
Anyone who insults or even opposes Muhammad or his people deserves a humiliating death, by beheading if possible. (So what did you think all those beheadings were for?)
Muhammad said that there are only three choices for non-Muslims: conversion, subjugation or death.
Current Islamic law mandates second-class status for Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims in Islamic society.
They have received the word from God, so Jews and Christians are “guilty” because they have not only rejected Muhammad, but also have distorted the legitimate revelations they have received from Allah, unlike the out and out pagans and idolaters such as Hindus and Buddhists.
Both the Qu’ran and Islamic tradition treat women as nothing more than the possessions of men.
Paradise is guaranteed only for those who slay or are slain for Allah.
Unbelievers are called “the vilest of creatures”. The Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ale Husayni Sistani, who is hailed as a moderate and a reformer has issued a religions ruling that the following ten things are essentially najis: (don’t waste time looking it up, just figure it out)
Urine
Feces
Semen
Dead body
Blood
Dog
Pig
Kafir (look in a mirror)
Alcoholic liquors
The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat
Islam has not reformed or changed its traditional doctrines of jihad.
Theo van Gogh
Interesting quote: (see if you can guess who and when before you look it up)
“I have studied the Qu’ran a great deal. I came away from the study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world so deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and though less absurd than polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.”
Islamic legal authorities allow the killing of non-combatants in the furtherance of Islamic conquest.
Anyone who insults or even opposes Muhammad or his people deserves a humiliating death, by beheading if possible. (So what did you think all those beheadings were for?)
Muhammad said that there are only three choices for non-Muslims: conversion, subjugation or death.
Current Islamic law mandates second-class status for Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims in Islamic society.
They have received the word from God, so Jews and Christians are “guilty” because they have not only rejected Muhammad, but also have distorted the legitimate revelations they have received from Allah, unlike the out and out pagans and idolaters such as Hindus and Buddhists.
Both the Qu’ran and Islamic tradition treat women as nothing more than the possessions of men.
Paradise is guaranteed only for those who slay or are slain for Allah.
Unbelievers are called “the vilest of creatures”. The Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ale Husayni Sistani, who is hailed as a moderate and a reformer has issued a religions ruling that the following ten things are essentially najis: (don’t waste time looking it up, just figure it out)
Urine
Feces
Semen
Dead body
Blood
Dog
Pig
Kafir (look in a mirror)
Alcoholic liquors
The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat
Islam has not reformed or changed its traditional doctrines of jihad.
Theo van Gogh
Interesting quote: (see if you can guess who and when before you look it up)
“I have studied the Qu’ran a great deal. I came away from the study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world so deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and though less absurd than polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.”
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Name that book:
When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.
Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.
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Originally Posted by Contacted
As for debating Kurt Haskell, those who are interested can always start another thread
Originally Posted by stator vane
i really can't see any reason to accept that viewpoint as any more reliable as any other
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Math fox wrote:
How many lives and careers should """security""" agencies be allowed to ruin to prevent one killing by terrorists?
How many democratic checks are there on what the security agencies do?
Should any company act on information that government officials refuse to put in writing?
Here are my answers:
How many lives and careers should """security""" agencies be allowed to ruin to prevent one killing by terrorists?
This is one the most absurd statements I have ever read and very telling of Matt's beliefs. I believe its OK to be over the top when it comes to safeguarding a weapon of mass destruction - which is exactly what a flying airliner could be. Do you really believe you need to wait before someone is flying an airliner into a crowded building to decide that he should not fly? Are you KIDDING???
Democratic check on security agencies. I live in the US. Yes lots and lots of checks. What do you call all the court actions?
Should any company act on information that government officials refuse to put in writing?
If I'm on the flight - OMG YES!!! If its only you on the flight - be my guest!
How many lives and careers should """security""" agencies be allowed to ruin to prevent one killing by terrorists?
How many democratic checks are there on what the security agencies do?
Should any company act on information that government officials refuse to put in writing?
Here are my answers:
How many lives and careers should """security""" agencies be allowed to ruin to prevent one killing by terrorists?
This is one the most absurd statements I have ever read and very telling of Matt's beliefs. I believe its OK to be over the top when it comes to safeguarding a weapon of mass destruction - which is exactly what a flying airliner could be. Do you really believe you need to wait before someone is flying an airliner into a crowded building to decide that he should not fly? Are you KIDDING???
Democratic check on security agencies. I live in the US. Yes lots and lots of checks. What do you call all the court actions?
Should any company act on information that government officials refuse to put in writing?
If I'm on the flight - OMG YES!!! If its only you on the flight - be my guest!
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Haskell story well documented in USA
Dear All,
I felt moved to share the fact that Kurt Haskell and his wife gave the same story under oath at the Mutallab trial. One only has to search
Miichael Chertoff former Director Homeland security, now chairman of the body scanner company supplying all US airports with the equipment. The quick ramp up of the Body scanner use is too much more than pure coincidence.Even the Under secretary of Homeland security stated Underwear bomber was escorted on NWA to Detroit.
The story hits home for me as I was transiting through AMS 1 week before the event after ferrying a 743 to Cairo, I was screened 3 times for being a pilot.
Strange times...Maybe we need body scanners at everyones home, just to be on the safe side.
Safe Journies...Sushi
I felt moved to share the fact that Kurt Haskell and his wife gave the same story under oath at the Mutallab trial. One only has to search
Miichael Chertoff former Director Homeland security, now chairman of the body scanner company supplying all US airports with the equipment. The quick ramp up of the Body scanner use is too much more than pure coincidence.Even the Under secretary of Homeland security stated Underwear bomber was escorted on NWA to Detroit.
The story hits home for me as I was transiting through AMS 1 week before the event after ferrying a 743 to Cairo, I was screened 3 times for being a pilot.
Strange times...Maybe we need body scanners at everyones home, just to be on the safe side.
Safe Journies...Sushi
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Several of the posts have me worried. Hopefully they are not from pilots.
For the conspiracy theorists who keep bring up Haskell. What the ???
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the so called underwear bomber had a valid USA visa in his valid Nigerian passport. This is a fact. Also a fact is that Haskell version of events do not correspond to any of the security video images of the ticket counter. Period.
If you believe otherwise contact me - I have friends in Nigeria that need help spending their inheritance.
For the conspiracy theorists who keep bring up Haskell. What the ???
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the so called underwear bomber had a valid USA visa in his valid Nigerian passport. This is a fact. Also a fact is that Haskell version of events do not correspond to any of the security video images of the ticket counter. Period.
If you believe otherwise contact me - I have friends in Nigeria that need help spending their inheritance.
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Hello scarrymike
This is one the most absurd statements I have ever read and very telling of Matt's beliefs.
Scarrymike, that is not a statement, but a rhetorical question in an attempt to make people think about security. The fact that you liked to add a personal attack makes me wonder where you work. 
I believe that 100% security is impossible and that we should accept some losses from traffic accidents, football hooligans and "terrorists". And yes, police and intelligence agencies should investigate crime (I file terrorism under crime... murder is murder, irrespective of motive) and bring criminals into court. Optimal security means that we have little to fear from crime, terrorism and our governments. In this case I see government ruining the career of a pilot. I can not form myself an opinion about whether that was warranted because UK government refuses (very democratically) to provide any information on where their """advice""" was based upon.
So, I conclude that UK pilots should fear arbitrary decisions of their government. Long live your new coalition democracy. (And my guess is that there's 90% chance that the UK became less safe, because there's one bitter ex-747-pilot around.)
How many lives and careers should """security""" agencies be allowed to ruin to prevent one killing by terrorists?
I believe that 100% security is impossible and that we should accept some losses from traffic accidents, football hooligans and "terrorists". And yes, police and intelligence agencies should investigate crime (I file terrorism under crime... murder is murder, irrespective of motive) and bring criminals into court. Optimal security means that we have little to fear from crime, terrorism and our governments. In this case I see government ruining the career of a pilot. I can not form myself an opinion about whether that was warranted because UK government refuses (very democratically) to provide any information on where their """advice""" was based upon.
So, I conclude that UK pilots should fear arbitrary decisions of their government. Long live your new coalition democracy. (And my guess is that there's 90% chance that the UK became less safe, because there's one bitter ex-747-pilot around.)
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Originally Posted by scarrymike
Also a fact is that Haskell version of events do not correspond to any of the security video images of the ticket counter. Period.
As a direct eyewitness who would be in a better position to help to identify anyone if needed … ?
haskellfamily.b l o g s p o t.com is not dedicated to the underwear bomber but all the post from Kurt and Lori on the topic are there.
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ScarryMike,
Under Secretary for management, Patrick Kennedy states Abdullahmutallab, was being watched, and would be allowed to get on a plane with passengers to avoid revealing this on going investigation.
Youtube has the congressional hearing, search: Flight 253 Patrick F. Kennedy testimony, to see the facts you are so unable to face. Shocking though it may be, we as pilots need to know, some behind the POLITICAL/industrial landscape scenes of the battle against terror.
Thousands of Body Scanners sat in warehouses, as the airports would not purchase them, until, the Underwear bomber incident.
Michael Chertoff, former Director of Homeland security, now Owner of the Chertoff Group Selling, you guessed it... BODY SCANNERS becomming richer.
Two searches and your IQ will increase,
Safe journies all...Sushi
Under Secretary for management, Patrick Kennedy states Abdullahmutallab, was being watched, and would be allowed to get on a plane with passengers to avoid revealing this on going investigation.
Youtube has the congressional hearing, search: Flight 253 Patrick F. Kennedy testimony, to see the facts you are so unable to face. Shocking though it may be, we as pilots need to know, some behind the POLITICAL/industrial landscape scenes of the battle against terror.
Thousands of Body Scanners sat in warehouses, as the airports would not purchase them, until, the Underwear bomber incident.
Michael Chertoff, former Director of Homeland security, now Owner of the Chertoff Group Selling, you guessed it... BODY SCANNERS becomming richer.
Two searches and your IQ will increase,
Safe journies all...Sushi
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Google. I feel so much smarter.
I do not believe that any law enforcement or intelligence agency employee would let someone with explosives on a commercial flight. Period.
It sucks to think that a pilot or anyone else is treated unfairly because a belief they expouse or for keeping a friendship with someone who is not mainstream. UNLESS you are a pilot of a commercial airline!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MathFox I completely disagree that it is acceptable for a terrorist act or murder to happen. It is OK by me if a few people are treated unfairly for the safety of the rest of us.
I do not believe that any law enforcement or intelligence agency employee would let someone with explosives on a commercial flight. Period.
It sucks to think that a pilot or anyone else is treated unfairly because a belief they expouse or for keeping a friendship with someone who is not mainstream. UNLESS you are a pilot of a commercial airline!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MathFox I completely disagree that it is acceptable for a terrorist act or murder to happen. It is OK by me if a few people are treated unfairly for the safety of the rest of us.
I don't think I have met many people who actually believe in the terrorist threat (some, but no many). People are just apathetic (me included). We have comfy lives, it is rational behaviour to just shrug our shoulders say "yeah, whatever" and change channel.
I think it's more appropriate to say most people accept there is a small terrorist threat, but the chance of personally being a victim is small.
In engineering we commonly do FMEA (Faiure Mode and Effects Analysis). You multiply the chance of a failure happening by the likely damage caused, and modify the design if the number is high enough. The exception is when a failure however small would have disastrous consequences (major loss of life). In that case you change the design - in this case taking what might be seen as excessive action.
Get over it.
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MathFox I completely disagree that it is acceptable for a terrorist act or murder to happen. It is OK by me if a few people are treated unfairly for the safety of the rest of us.
In engineering we commonly do FMEA (Faiure Mode and Effects Analysis). You multiply the chance of a failure happening by the likely damage caused, and modify the design if the number is high enough. The exception is when a failure however small would have disastrous consequences (major loss of life). In that case you change the design - in this case taking what might be seen as excessive action.
Originally Posted by scarrymike
It is OK by me if a few people are treated unfairly for the safety of the rest of us.
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Yes - everyone is treated like crap. BTW - thats my line ! I treat everyone the same - like crap - so get over it.
Engineers will never make final decisions in my world.
For people who believe treating someone unfairly turns them into a murderer - I simply disagree. People are not turned into murderers. No way.
BKVS - hats off to anyone who chases down a dungeness in the morning and is speeding down The Canyon or Canucks Delux in the afternoon!
Engineers will never make final decisions in my world.
For people who believe treating someone unfairly turns them into a murderer - I simply disagree. People are not turned into murderers. No way.
BKVS - hats off to anyone who chases down a dungeness in the morning and is speeding down The Canyon or Canucks Delux in the afternoon!
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Was that the end of it?
Was there any more comment about the Jamalahuddin case on Pprune? I haven't found any - but perhaps I should try harder. What has happened to Mr Jamalahuddin? Was further comment discouraged? I believe the Tribunal reached a conclusion last year - but after this thread stopped.
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I haven't read all the posts so apologies if this is a repeat.
I believe this is the result of profiling. Practised with great success by a small country in the middle east. E.G., any security policey that is thought out properly, wont work over say a WASP grandmother, as they would others I could mention.
The sooner the west embraces profiling, the sooner progress will be made on nailing the bad guys and ceasing to inconvenience the good guys.
War was declared on the west, so until the west fights the war to win, they are wasting their time.
Forget about human rights, thats just appeasement/capitulation. National security must take presidence over anything else.
I believe this is the result of profiling. Practised with great success by a small country in the middle east. E.G., any security policey that is thought out properly, wont work over say a WASP grandmother, as they would others I could mention.
The sooner the west embraces profiling, the sooner progress will be made on nailing the bad guys and ceasing to inconvenience the good guys.
War was declared on the west, so until the west fights the war to win, they are wasting their time.
Forget about human rights, thats just appeasement/capitulation. National security must take presidence over anything else.
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 8th Mar 2013 at 11:38.
