Owning a light aircraft in the UK
 

Dear aviator types,
I have a brief question which I am sure will not tax your no doubt planetoidoenal brains!
I'm off to sunny South Africa in July to complete a PPL + night and IFR course and, after that, I shan't be working until next year (lucky me). Since I'll want to buzz around the UK and perhaps even brave out the hop over to Le Touquet a few times I think that it would be cheaper for me to but an aircraft for a year or so and then perhaps sell it on (or keep it). As I see it, with hired planes from my local airfield (Southend) running at c. 100 GBP ph ownership seems the best option (I would happily do a syndicate but after a year I'll probably be working abroad and in any case I don't think I could find a group who would want me to fly, say, 20 hours a week, every week.
So, my question is this: If I buy a plane in the 15 to 20 K bracket, how much (and I appreciate that this will be a rough guestimate) would it cost to fly for those 20 hrs a week. I've no idea how much "hangarage", servicing costs or even fuel and insurance comes to. Does it equate to a family saloon for costs (please feel free to collapse laughing if I'm woefully below the mark here).

Any advise you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much,

Cap'n Crunch
[email protected]

PS. I promise not to cut in on your RT or bash my kite into yours.

Also (getting greedy for info now!):
Am I correct in thinking that for my money the aircraft would be from the late 60's / early 70's and therefore at the end of its depreciation. ie. If I but a Cessna 172 for 15 grand in June, would I get about 14 grand for it after 1 year / 400 hours flying time.
Are there any other costs involved ? (Bound to be!)
Yours Aye,
Cap'n Crunch

CC,

Check for the hidden costs ..... there are lots of them. C of A, C of MR, hangerage etc .etc .etc.

Personally I wouldn't do it unless you are loaded. A syndicate is different because you can spread the costs so it does become cheaper and I doubt anyone will want you to fly 20 hours in a week! You want to shop around for cheap aircraft hire. I pay 30 quid a month and then hire 152's for 48 quid an hour. A sure fire way to hour build. Maybe others could post here thier cheap hire up here too. Come on chaps and chapesses.

AF

Captain Crunch,

I was in a Cessna 150 syndicate a few years ago, and the aircraft was insured for £25k. You would probably be flying an airborne rustbucket if you could find something for £15k, and it probably wouldn't be a Cessna 172. However, look on the positive side of group flying. I gained a great deal of experience in just a few months with my group (125hrs in 6 months). I spent every weekend flying to a different airfield/farmstrip/beach! My fellow group members came with me and added their pearls of wisdom and shared thier knowledge with me and all in all it was some of the most enjoyable flying I have ever done. Groups can be flexible. There were 20 in my group, and we ranged from a member who didn't even have a PPL but just liked to come along for the ride, to hours builders like myself.

If you have the money to buy your own aircraft, make sure you have the knowledge to keep it maintained. The group had an extremely knowledgable secretary who made sure everything was kept up to date. Where you chose to keep your aircraft will also have an impact on how much it costs. A farm strip where the a/c is kept outside will not cost as much in parking as a hangar place at a posh aerodrome, for example.

BTW the cost of my group C150 was £25 per week, and £30 per hour. multiply £25 by 20 members and you've got a monthly kitty of £500. Of course your a/c won't need as frequent checks and won't be flown as intensively as mine was, but thats a good starting ball park figure.

autofly, do you fly from coventry?

CaptainCrunch,

As stated previously if you can afford it, then do it.

I bought my plane two years ago and it totally reinvigorated my flying. The biggest advantage is knowing that it is available when YOU want to go flying. A great feeling when it's a sunny day and everyone wants to fly the club aircraft.

With regard to ownership costs I decided to keep it (it was imported from the US) on the N reg. This has saved us a considerable amount. As long as you dont have any major mechanical disasters the major fixed costs are hagarage, insurance, annual inspections, CAA/FAA fees. For me it works out at about £2,500 per year before I fly the thing. So figure on 200 hours per year at £30 per hour for fuel thats £42.50 per flying hour, not too bad really. Add another £10 per hour on top for an engine fund/consumables fund.

Make sure you shop around for a good solid plane with good records, it is a false economy to buy cheaply.

Regards,

Dean

PS My plane (PA22/20) goes up for sale in next months Pilot and Flyer. I'm purchasing a Comanche. Anyone that's interested email me for further details.

Definately worth asking a club for a price on 100 hours. You might get a club at southend down to £70 or even £60 per hour. try it.

Planes break, they cost money and time to fix. With a club if one is broken you just take the next set of keys. They also won't mind you doing big hours, a group might. It may turn out cheaper and more convenient in the long run.

Thank you all very much for your replies. I do see that sharing is easier on the wallet but what if after, say, a year I sell the plane on? If I pay 25,000. use it for 200 hours and sell it for 22,000 then that must be cheaper than block hours - even at 70 quid a go. I suppose the easiest thing to do is just to give it the big hoof to the US for a few months and buzz round the Bahamas but the memsahib wouldn't be too pleased! Does anyone know actual costs? Hangarage, fuel per hour, insurance et ceterae?

As far as routine servicing - if you are a competent mechanic, and I don't mean simply capable of adding oil or changing brake pads - you could operate the aircraft under a private C of A thus cutting down on maintenance costs.

There is a good book somewhere on owning your own light aircraft. I'll have a search and post the title.

Capt C.

Have you considered a single seater?

There are many of these for sale in the £6k bracket, they burn about £10 per hour fuel and engines should last 1500 hours (cost about £1-2k to replace). Insurance is about £600p.a. Depreciation negligible (or negative!) unless you bend it. Maintenance can be done yourself with great learning opportunities. Hangarage depends where you base it, but shouldn't be more than £2k p.a. and could be considerably less in Farmer Palmer's field.

Hope this helps!

A single seater....now there's an idea. A good TURBULENT can be had for between £5K-£8K. Simplicity itself and utilises none other than the air cooled VW beetle engine, spares for which are plentiful.

Open top fun and cheap to run.

P.S - Remember that this IS an aero-engine that was put in the car, not the other way around!

schuler_tuned

Sure do ...... looks like i maybe rumbled here but what a deal. I'm sorting it out with the two Rons as we speak.

Send me an e-mail.

AF

How about an ex-RAF Bulldog at the auctions. Going for prices within your budget if you get one which is not quite so near it's frame limit, aerobatic and will sell for more maybe, when the RAF is no longer flodding the market and depreciating the prices. Risk though.

Unless you are indeed loaded and want to keep the thing indefinately, why not lease.

I have just bought 50 hours on a PA38 for £38 per hour dry. I don't have to worry about servicing, insurance or any other incidentals. I just pay to fly.

The company that I am leasing from have a number of similar aircraft and they appear to be quite flexible on the length of lease and minimum hours flown per month. You can find a nimber of companies who will lease you an aircraft in Pilot Mag and other such publications.

Thank you all for your excellent replies.

GJB and Dan Dare: I once put cold water in a hot radiator and destroyed the engine on my dad's new car. Not an auspicious start, however the single seat idea is, I think, an excellent one. I could buzz around all day for next to nothing and then if I wanted to take the tribe up I could hire a swanky four seater. Do you have any details or websites? Also, could such an aircraft go from, say, London to Dublin? Presumably it's just a question of finding enough fuel stops (as you can see - I really don't know too much yet!). After an hour or so it must get pretty chilly in one of these. Should I invest in a thermal vest?

Lucifer: I've seen the Bulldogs you refer to in Pilot. Tempting but the idea of the single seater, wind in the hair, home in time for tea and medals is very appealing.

You Aint Seen Me. Roit!: 38 GBP an hour (wet?) is seriously cheap it's just that I really do want to own my own plane although from your mail am I right in thinking that while you have your 50 hours the plane is exclusively yours? ie. Will it be constantly available for you to use and take to other airfields overnight? That could be very tempting since it's essentially the same as having one's own aircraft. I remember. Burma. 42. They came out of the sun. I gave it to them. Wagga wagga wagga. Had to crash in the jungle and they made me their chief!

Yours aye,

Cap'n Crunch
Cologne

Few (probably not very bright) queries re single seaters:

Are they only allowed to be taken up in VFR?
Does the radio telegraphy work with all the noise going on?
Are they "taildraggers"?

Thanks,

CC

I would forget buying for the timescale you mention. What you should factor in is the timescale for a resale. With the current economic climate I would not buy an airplane as they tend to be regarded as extravagant items in the family budget and you´ll probably have a hard time shifting it.

I was an hour building group member during the last economic downturn. The other members got mighty p*ssed off at my higher hours and bought me out. I saw the ad for my share in Pilot for 18 months after that.

Look to get good block deals, that´s the best way. Sniff around for a private owner who wants some wind through the wings of his plane.

Good luck.

Rod

CaptainCrunch

It is £38 per hour dry, but this is still significantly cheaper than you would pay at most fields.

The good news is that yes, I will effectively own the aircraft for about 2-3 months and I can do what I want and go where I want and most importantly, fly WHEN I want.

This option appears to be exactly what you want, but without any risk whatsoever.

Look it up in the popular mags, it may suit you as well as it suits me.

Most single seaters are probably on permits, and hence limited to day VMC. But, the running costs will be around £20/hr. You could get something sporty like a minimax for about £5000 which is a taildragger, but there are nosewheel jobs around too.

G

Thermal vest is a good idea in the winter, but shorts & t-shirt okay for warmer days when wind in your hair is unbeatable!

No need to rely on wireless telgraphy ( --.- ... -.-- , . - -.-. ) though, radio telephony works well with an handheld!

[This message has been edited by Dan Dare (edited 05 April 2001).]