So you want to be an instructor?
 

Just thought I would put this here as many of you might not normally look in the instructors forum (have a look this time though)

Many of us reading the wannabe forum are exactly that.... a 'wannabe' airline pilot (me included). Along the way we sometimes become instructors to help build those hours that the airlines look for.

My point is this:

I believe that there are already too many instructors in the system. How many of you have been told "become an instructor, you'll get loads of hours in"? And who told you?

JWF :)

There is rumoured to be a shortage of instructors

Not true

If it was true then instructors would
not be paid NMW

The airlines are requesting higher hours
to narrow down the CV piles so many
pilots are in hours build mode

I spent 20 hours at airfields last weekend, and managed 4 hours instruction time, there definetly is not a shortage of instructors certainly at FI(R) level. However I do enjoy it and I believe its making a better pilot out of me so its not all bad.

cheers

MJR

Just a quick question in relation to instructing. Is it possible to instruct just with a PPL and AFI rating, having not sat any
Commercial Examinations?? As I already have a
successful career, I would be looking to instruct at the weekends only ( not bothered about being paid)
Thanks Guys

Crash Barrier

To instruct for the PPL you need to have passed all of the CPL theory exams as well as do the AFI course. This will allow you to teach at PPL level unpaid.

However you will not be very popular with the rest of us who have spent a lot (LOT!) of money to get where we are and need to earn a living (however modest). While I am sure your intentions are well meaning the problem with unpaid instruction is that it devalues the job for those who need to be paid.

I would also add that once you have passed all the exams why stop there? 25 hours on a CPL course later and you have a CPL.

JWF :)

Juswonfly,
Thanks for your reply, I phoned the CAA FCL
this afternoon, they advised that to instruct
for no pay all that is required is a PPL and
AFI rating, and No CPL Examinations. Just
thought I would let you know. By the way I
am not really bothered about being popular with other instructors!!!

Go Crash!

Other fringe benefits:

1. No worries about taking an IR within 18 months of the ATPL writtens.

2. You can hold down a well paid job during the week and earn more than an FI while building your hours up.

3. You will have more hours when you go for your CPL

The only snag I can see is that you will have stricter weather minima to work to than the CPL people.

Pie

Just wonder how effective an instructor with little more than ppl training can be???
Nice to hear of your concerns for those Wannabes trying to earn a crust Crash old son!
Weekend bloody pilots...don't you just luv 'em

Crash Barrier

You are wrong........see the following

www.ais.org.uk/Uk_aip/pdf/aic/4W325.pdf

Yep...weekend pilots! No offence!

JWF :) :) :)

Crash Barrier,
I was wondering if you could help me ,once I have the ATPL`s out the way,I was thinking of doing a little Air Traffic control in my spare time,I dont mind not being paid...I see you are connected with ATC..perhaps I could do your job whilst your Instructing at weekends. :rolleyes: :): :rolleyes: :):

------------------
GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!

[This message has been edited by Delta Wun-Wun (edited 17 May 2001).]

JWF Thank God you came across that. I had been worried all day that the CAA would let anyone up there with students or trial flyers with only 40hrs, and an FI (r) course.

Crash. This is the wrong forum for you! Most here have put their lives, cats, houses etc on the line to become professional pilots. For many this requires a period of instruction work where, hours of commercial training and structured hour building are at the disposal of clubs for bugger all money.

The fact that you don’t care what other instructors think about your self centred attitude to life suggests that you might be better off in the Private flying forum, where you might just offend fewer people!
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/brdflick.gif

Crash Barrier,

I believe one used to be able to instruct with just a PPL and an AFI rating, but not any more. The trouble with phoning the CAA is that you can get someone who isn't up to date with changes in the rules. Crazy, but what I've found too.

Now will the rest of you give the guy a break! He WANTS to instruct; the rest of you just want to use students to further your airline careers. Good for him. We need more dedicated instructors. You might have some reason to complain if there were a lot like him, but not many people will be able to afford to be. So quit bloody whining. The CFI at one of the airfields I fly at does it unpaid, and he's damned good, better than the ever-changing bunch of not-terribly-interested low hours airline wannabes who work with him.

Crash Barrier, if that's what you want, go for it. Unfortunately you will have to do the CPL ground exams, unless things change again. And yes, they are as bad as everyone tells you.

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

I agree stop bashing crash.

Never trust anything the CAA TELL you, only ever things in WRITING that they can then be shown at a latter date.

If he wants to piss other instructors off, fine, but he wont get far in a club enviroment. As for worries about PPLs not having a clue in the air with a student, surly the FI rating is set to show a holder is capable for the duties entailed, not just able to fly and talk.

For what its worth, if you have to go though the CPLs (I'd agree with this, instruction takes far more backround knowlege than the Trevor Thom books), and all the dosh of a AFIC, and can still afford to teach for free, then another 25hrs are well worth it for a CPL, it opens up a lot more scope.

Well sorry, I say work-for-free instructors can sod off! We get the p!ss taken out of us quite enough financially as it is. I don't want to work alongside people who are happy to blunder on obliviously and rob some other guy of a wage.

Trouble is, Crash, that people are actually trying to make LIVINGS out of this business ... obviously it's in the interest of the school to give the unpaid guy as much work as he can handle, they get to put the extra amount they're charging for your services straight back into their pockets! Every unpaid hour that you fly, is an hour that some other person on the payroll might desperately need to pay the rent or the grocery bill this month. Whether or not we're career instructors, hour builders or weekend warriors is immaterial - we all need to work on a level playing field.

I have been in the situation in schools back home in NZ, where I have literally been confronted with a first instructing job offer, asked about wages and been laughed at - been told to my face 'if you won't do this job for free, then there are ten other guys that will'. (I didn't take the job). I'd hate to see things go that way over here in the UK, I don't think they will provided we all stand together.

-------------

The PPRuNe side of the force ... http://www.ffalpha.com/ubb/smilies/smokin.gif

I think there is still confusion about whether a CPL is needed or not for a FI course!

What the regulations say is that you need to meet the knowledge requirements of a CPL (ATPL ground studies will do it) but a PPL and an appriate flight time loged is fine! No payment though. To be paid, you need a CPL.

http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.1.335.htm

I might be wrong! If so I apologise!

TheNavigator

I came to aviation late,being 35 before starting my PPL.My Instructor had over 20000 hours Instructing.He was very professional,had very acurate and exacting standards.I was and still am very impressed with his knowledge and patience,BUT the big thing that shocked me was that his salary was about a third of mine.Now I know some people instruct to build hours,that doesnt mean that they dont do a good job instructing.Other people wish to be career Instructors.How do they get a living wage when people are prepared to sail in and do their jobs for nothing.

------------------
GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!

Crash

The conversation you had with the CAA relates
to the AFI course - does this exist anymore?

I am surprised that they referred to AFI

This is historical information justwanna/D11
are on the nail here and the AIC backs them up. You nee the theory.

Also..

It's not particularly easy to get an instructional position at the moment and
an FI without CPL would find it difficult
to get work.

Thanks for all the genuine decent replies to
my question, however I would like to point out that I am not trying to devalue paid instructing jobs. I believe that in the not too distant past it was possible to instruct with just a PPL and AFIC course, and according to the CAA it still is (unpaid)
I will however try to get to the bottom of this, I would like to point out also that I have been flying privately for 10 years now, so I am not just some !!!!ty ppl with 40hrs.
The way that the lynchmob on this forum has
torn my question apart is unjust and child like. It raises serious concerns about the mentality of these so called future Professional Pilots.
Oh by the way Skytoddler why dont you S*d off
back to NZ and get a job in 'your' home country??? Or is your flying ability not good
enough for ANZ ??

An emotive subject - working for free.

EVERYBODY COOL DOWN.

The most accomodating solution is to charge the student the same price as for a paid FI and the extra increment goes to the flying school owner.

You have not been renumerated for your flying instruction time in accordance with the law.

Around about the same time the Flying Club owner creates an employee benefit fund that affords his hard working staff perhaps free food and drink in the clubhouse...

This way all the FI's are happy, JWF is happy, the law remains intact.

Lateral thinking guys. Plus I've seen it doen before along similar lines.

WWW

as an aside - I fully understand the Wannabe sentiment of "I will fly for food". I was there once myself. However, expect short thrift from your professional colleagues if you expose this sentiment too vocally. Flying for a living is a livelihood and a hard one at that. If you threaten a mans livelihood then he is entitled to react with extreme prejudice. Think on.

Hey Crash. Have you considered instructing in the ultralight field, it's grown a fair bit here in Aus although I doubt you'd get a much better reception. Very well put WWW!
As someone who scrimped for fortnightly lessons for PPL, borrowed for CPL + instructor rating robbed banks for CIR and finally ended up in Ag, it never ceases to amaze me the number of blokes who are willing to instruct or fly suedo charter for free(some even pay for ICUS on night freight). Actually it gives me the !!!!!s.