100 hrs P1 before CPL rule???
 

Can someone confirm the following.

Due need to have 100 P1 and 150tt and the 300nm trip with a minimum of 3 landing at different airports before CPL training comences or is it required before licence issue?

Any other requirement not mentioned above please indicate.


thanks

mint

Mf,

These requirements are for applicants, they are not pre-requisites. Your numbers are correct only in certain instances.

If you go to

JAR-FCL 1, Subpart D, 1.155

you'll find the complete text regarding a JAR-FCL CPL(A).

Good luck.
redbar1

Redbar,

Sorry, you are wrong. According to page 63 of the document you reference:(The use of bold is my own, and not from the original document.)

Just as a general rule, if you're going to point us to a 200+ page document, a page reference would be nice :) It took me 15 minutes to find this line, and that was when I knew exactly what I was looking for!!!

I suggest buying a copy of LASORS for £10, which, although not authoritative, gives all the information you need in a much more concise form. It's also available on-line now I believe - I'm sure someone who has the link handy will be happy to post it.

FFF
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I think this is it

http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/f...sp?groupid=292[/URL]

FFF,
Sorry, no hit. Mintflavour didn't indicate wether he/she wanted a modular or integrated course. If Mint goes ab-initio integrated, then (obviously) there are no pre-requisites like this! (See Appendices 1 to 1.160 & 1.165(a)(1), (a)(2) and (a)(3)) That's also why I specified that the numbers were only correct for certain instances.

JARs on JAA website are in .PDF format, so linking to single pages doesen't work. That's why I referred to both Subpart D and to the relevant para nr.

Anyway, mint can now access and enjoy reading the whole FCL :ok:

Mint

Assuming modular:

150 hours is pre-course.

100 hours P1 and 300-nm x-country are for licence issue (can sit course and take the test before).

Send Clowns
BCFT

Even though it says you need 150Hrs you need a TT of 200Hrs for the CPL to be issued and as the course is only 25Hrs you realistically need 175Hrs.

You also need a night rating as well don't you? Plus 100Hrs P1 time and 300nm Cross Country.

Thanks guys.
Im modular and will be sitting my final ATPL exams in June.

just that Im 25 hours short at the moment to start the CPL.

Havent read the text yet that the people above pointed out but just to check, the 300nm cross country .... is that the furthest waypoint 300nm away from departure airfield or you have to land at an airfield that has to be over 300nm away from the original departure airfield


mint

Neither, mint.

It's a flight of at least 300nm, with landings at two airfields other than the starting airfield. In theory, it could consist of 3 legs, each of which is 100nm. But I think it's much more fun to go further afield, personally!

As for those 25 hours, it will probably work out fairly well for you. After finishing the exams, do those few extra flying hours, and then you'll be current when you start the CPL training - much better than starting the CPL immediately after 12 months of studying without doing any flying.

Good luck!

Redbar, must have been very tired last night because I completely missed your bit about "Subpart D, 1.155". :rolleyes: Point taken about integrated training, have to admit I know very little about integrated training - just so long as we make it clear that for modular training, there are pre-requisite hours.

FFF
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The 300nm x/c can be a big triangle if you want - as long as the straight line distances add up to 300nm or more and you carry out a full stop landing at two airfields in addition to the one you departed from.

Some people use the distance flown rather than the straight line distance, but I am sure (but prepared to be corrected) than the CAA can measure it if you're not careful and make you do another one!

Anybody know if solo time flown during the PPL course counts towards the 100 hrs PIC time needed for the CPL? I'm hoping it does otherwise I've got another dozen hours to worry about :(

It does indeed count towards your 100 hours P1 as you were Pilot in Command - doesn't matter if there was nobody else in the aeroplane at the time.

Dufwer,

P1 time is P1 time doesn't matter when you got.

For the 300nm cross country. Make sure you keep your landing fee reciept as proof you were there they day you said you were. Probably not so much a problem if you fly in the UK as the CAA can just pick up the phone.

200hrs before issue. Well if you are going to do your IR as well thats another 55 hours at least.

150 + 25 + 55 = enough for license issue.

You could also use some of those "extra" 25 hours to train for, and pass, the re-sit. (Attempt 2, Series 1)

I did a x/c last year touring around some of Florida. 7 airfields in one day and I need to measure but I believe it was in excess of 300nm, I could use this but as there are no landing fees or paper work out there how can I prove it. Would the CAA question this?

mint

mint,

I think the fact that it was in florida the CAA are more likely to ask questions because its harder for them to checkup on you.

CAA checking flights: Did you record the flight in your logbook? Isn't that why you have to submit your logbook to them? It being a legal document serving as a record of experience etc etc.

If they choose not to accept the logbook entry then they're effectively accusing you of falsifying it - a rather serious transgression. I'd be surprised if they then didn't follow up with all sorts of legal nastiness...

Mintflower

Almosy certainly yes.

Yor flight scvhool should provide you with a document which you can get signed by airport officials during the stopovers of your qualifying trip.

The CAA may be charitable but that is their official position

My understanding is that you must land at NO MORE THAN two intermediate airfields in the course of the 300nm qualifying flight. In other words, a flight totalling 300nm made up of a lot of short hops wouldn't count.

How sure are you about that Tee

If you were to do four stops for example but still a good distance between them will the CAA except it.
The point is where is the fine line, as I have not heard of any documentation from the CAA that defines a valid x/c in this sort of detail.

I dont plan to use my florida trip as the x/c but I will like to make sure that when I do a x/c later this year that it will be a definate valid one.

Mint

The above extract from CAA seems to imply that doing three away landings would not fulfill the requirement. A bit pedantic but it doesn't say "at least two".

D

I disagree Dufwer. If you make landings at half a dozen airfields you have, by any normal logic, landed at two. There is nothing saying "two and no more than two".

Why should they question, Minty? You have signed a legal document to that effect, as you do on most of your flights. I did my official qualifier in Florida as well (since the FAA PPL qualifier has the same requirements as the CAA CPL I coud have used that, but I think it was too long ago), and never even considered proof.

If they do querry it they can easily proove you fles the aircraft from the hirer's records. That should satisfy them.

I landed at three other airfields for my CPL qualifying cross country. I submitted my log book for CPL and then for FI, nothing said from CAA. CPL issued and FI rating issued.:D

QCC
 

I believe that there is a ruling regarding the distance from the starting point to the first intermediate. I think it is 100nm, but I suggest you double check.

I got signatures of QFI to authenticate my logbook and I had no problems with license issue - although I did keep my receipts just in case...

"aerodromes of departure"? By that logic you would have to visit an infinite number of aerodromes as you would always have to land at two different ones from the the ones that you have departed from! I think that should read "the first aerodrome of departure".

High wing,

I think you are absolutely right. If one consults the original text in JAR-FCL, it states
Unless CAA UK did this on purpose, the most probable cause is some typo just sneaked in an extra "s" in the "aerodrome of departure".

Cheers,
redbar1

Send Clowns, as I said I was being pedantic. That's just me I suppose :( When it comes to decifering the meaning of CAA doco I have started taking them at absolute face value, i.e. if it doesn't say "two or more" or "at least two" but just "two", then two is what I'll do. I did a few extra hours during my PPL which turned out I didn't have to do, as a result of a "misunderstanding" of a particular requirement. I see from postings above that you can do more than two away landings and it is acceptable, but I'll plan on just two.

D