FI's fit to be an F/O?
 

KLMuk / Buzz have started the new round of partial sponsorships which includes 2 years as an FI at Cabair.

Can anyone enlighten what makes a sponsored FI more suitable to be an F/O on a T-prop or even Jet, as opposed to a Self sponsored FI ???? :confused:

One thing HOUR's, at the end of the two year period the instructor will have around 1500 hours. Before I entered this sponsorship I had a CPL completed on a full time course and thought that I knew everything about flying and wanted to be on a nice shiney jet. Now that I have completed my time as an instructor I realise how green I actually was, my flying is now spot on in all areas and because of the ground school that students require my knowledge is far beyond what it was at the end of the full time CPL (frozen ATPL) course.

I know that the airlines that utilise this sponsorship like the process because the FI f/o's generally sail through the sim training and line training with the experience that they have. F/o's taken from the integrated course have a greater drop out rate than the F/I equivelants to the point that Buzz is only sponsoring through this F/I scheme.

Now I don't want this to be an integrated vs. everyone else thread, the fact of the matter is good and bad pilots are produced on both routes, trust me though, after two years of students trying to kill you you are prepared for anything and the airlines recognise this. The general recruiting order is as follows:

1 - sponsored cadets (either FI or integrated)
2 - experienced type rated pilots
3 - experienced airline pilots
4= - Pilots with hours from GA
4= - Pilots straight out of flight school.

Let me ask you this question, why should a pilot straight off an integrated course with approx. 200 hours total time be employed ahead of an experienced F.I. with 1000 hours plus.

A H

Beats me! I agree with what you say. Myself, an FI for the last 3 1/2 years at a "Training School" (due to 9/11) & 2150 hours with an ATPL, this brings me back to the original post- why is an airline sponsored FI seamingly a more suitable FO than a self sponsored FI?

Money !
Not yours aardvark keeper but the one the training provider (future FI employer) and the airline can save.

I suspect some cunning tax break and clever accounting with benefits that can be enjoyed by both Cabair and Buzz. Not to forget as well that Buzz knows today they can get a certain number of people in 2 years time. After all the guys will be bonded (fair enough)and with a FI's salary, quite unlikely to jump ship before that.

AH

Please explain your 'recruiting order' list - for what positions are
you referring ?

Sad to say - 1500 hours as an instructor on light aircraft does not
imply an easy progress through groundschool, simulator and line
flying on a 'shiny jet'. There is a limit to the perceived advantage
that endless circuit bashing and cross-country flight in a 150(et al)
can provide. Don't get me wrong - experience in the log-book is no bad thing but ultimately it has to be the right kind of experience - where you get that quality of experience from is another matter completely !

beamer

Don't underestimate an FI course and what an FI rating can give you. I have recently started working towards my FI rating. There is one thing studying piston theory or met for your ATPLs but trying to teach it is a completely different matter! I was told previously that you learn so much from an FI course in terms of knowledge and how to improve your flying. Now I know what they were talking about!

One question to all this:

Is there such a thing as having too many FI hours (esp. SE and piston) for the airlines? I keep hearing this again and again, and would like to know if there's any truth in it. I instructed for 3 years, burnt myself out, then got a job for 1 1/2 years FINALLY flying TP and a bit of jet, before I was let go ... :(

One big advantage I see as being a FI is that you can self-critisize easier.

7 7 7 7

Fat Dog,

Of course a sponsored pilot is preferred above all others, if an airline has invested a significant amount of money on training that sponsored pilot then it is in the interest of the airline to take this pilot first in a recruiting drive so that they may recoup their investment.

STOP!

We all know the "for's & against's" for FI's, many hours SEPL but of the 'wrong experience' for an airline environment.

Why is an FI who works at Cabair for 2 years doing the same work & training syllabus as joe bloggs at "another training school", any more qualified to be an FO?

I imagine the scheme has the following benefits.

a) 2 years is a nice long time for the airline - via the school - can assess their trainee. He or She might have been great during selection but over a 2 year period their true charactar can shine through...

b) Similarly during the 2 years in the scheme the trainee will have been liable for a structured assessment process. They would have had flight stansdardisation tests and have been graded several times. This backs up the aptitude test results.

c) The FTO probably provides the initial training at cost in return for a an airline bonded FI who will work hard, keep a clean nose and not grumble about low wages. This saves the airline money.

d) Having trainees ensconsed for 2 years in a FTO provides a little flexibility in terms of date of airline entry. If things suddenly slow down you might be able to say sorry - but another year in the school is required. Or, the airline expands and needs FO's NOW they can call Cabair give 'em the bad news, compensate them somehow and have their cadets on a 737 coversion course the following Monday.


All the above are advantages of such a scheme over taking any old 1500hr FI's from an advert places in Flight.

The actual talent, ability or suitability of the product of the two routes is irrelevant and probably - no different.

Cheers,

WWW

So who's going to be the Captain then ? 6 to 900 hours a year it will take 4 to 5 years to reach 3000 TT (kind of standard)....

Also you will find that sponsored intake are very often done in conjonction with DEPs (not talking about cadets who have been put on hold and being recalled slowly).

But to answer again the original question and like WWW said
There is an advantage but not found in the candidates themselves.

It's horses for courses and as has been pointed out already it comes down to cost and flexibility for the airline . It just so happens that this is the 'scheme' that this particular airline have found suits them best, it's no reflection on the perceived skill levels of various methods of gaining your licence. They are obviously happy with the 'product', as are several airlines who are now gravitating towards the ab initio students, again mainly on a cost basis, but also, certainly with jmc, on the basis that their hours are so low on entry that it is going to take them several years to reach the required number for command and the prospects for command are that far off anyway. This fact means they won't be 'bleating' at the CP every month about when are command selections going to be run, possibly unlike a guy who joins with 3000hrs.

Just remember, there are several factors which go to make the 'ideal' candidate for each airline, not just number of hours. On that note I will point out again something which I learnt along the way and that is what we perceive to be 'low hours' and what airlines perceive to be low hours. We think <250hrs as being low, whereas from my experience the (jet) airlines consider virtually any number of single piston hours as being low and turbo operators consider <1000 to be low. I'm not saying that less than these figures make you unemployable, just that there is an awful lot of competition for jobs with these kind of hours so don't go thinking that buying another 100hrs in a single is going to make you any more employable. It won't. You must get someone else to be paying for this kind of hour building and quality is better than quantity - a couple of hundred twin hours will make you stand out slightly from the CV pile, but again, not by much.

My advice? Get someone else to fund your hour building by instructing/ para dropping/ survey work etc etc. but above all, GET NETWORKING because that is what really makes you stand out in a crowd of CVs.

From the KLMuk/Buzz point of view, all pilots are recruited as potential Captains. Someone with 1500 hours as an instructor is going to be eligible for command sooner i.e have the minimum hours required, than someone with 250 hours.

It also makes the insurance cheaper having pilots with 1000+ hours.