Well, well, well, this is an interesting little thread developing. I don’t really want to respond to Tokenbird’s post as I don’t really see how that would benefit this thread. Additionally, 52049er hit the nail on the head re: giving a damn. I posted an honest reply hoping that some people may find my views helpful; if that makes me a tosser, then a tosser I am!

Moving on swiftly, Duncan2 I was taken on about two years ago, and I am unsure how the criteria has changed in that time. I think 52049er made an important point when emphasing the diverse range of people taken at BA. I too came from another blue chip company with considerable commercial/management experience, but the great thing about the CEP scheme, is that it is so open in terms of experience, background, and even to a certain extent, qualifications. Personality and motivation, not necessarily in the field of aviation, are what I believe BA look for.

Finally, I too second the notion that we move away from labeling CEP’s. Most of us appreciate the fortunate position we are in, are aware of the fact that you need an element of good fortune on the day, and realise that we could have easily landed on the other side of the fence.

Ta very much...

The Dog.


[This message has been edited by Doggerman (edited 08 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Doggerman (edited 08 May 2001).]

Dear all,

Sorry if I offended people. It's just that recently I've seen some really great people rejected by BA, and some total idiots accepted. This causes me some puzzlement. So I lashed out.

I realise that BA are looking for good all-rounders with commercial awareness as well as an interest in flying. I certainly wouldn't suggest that BA just take on those people most passionate about flying if they are totally clueless about everything else, but from some of the posts above, it seems that BA sometimes lean too far the other way. I do honestly find it surprising that there are people who are currently up there flying for BA who would have happily remained accountants if they hadn't got sponsorship!

I just can't see myself giving up on the idea of being a pilot if I fail to nail any sponsorships - it just isn't an option. So I guess I assumed everyone else on this forum felt the same. Evidently not. Hmmn.

TB

Token Bird, I definitely feel the same way you do about flying. I've been rejected by BA once at the Final Board already, I'm currently giving other sponsorship schemes a shot and at the back of my mind I'm considering instructing as a way to the airlines.

Reading the Rumours and News forum, I have my doubts as to how good a company BA really is to work for. For me though, its the flying that I want to do so I will apply for BA again.

Although I respect Great Expectations and others views that its BA or no-one, I just find it a bit baffling. At the end of the day, I feel it comes down to how you answer the question, in terms of justifying it, rather than what your answer actually is.

Tokenbird, Im really upset by your post. I was accepted about a month ago, just before your final board and actually I read your posts before you went away and was keeping my fingers crossed fro you, And for Grace and Lori too. I have spent the last five years working towards the BA sponsorship, it means a lot to me and as another female I am ready to sacrifice everything in my life to the job and the comapany. BA is the most important thing in the world to me and I resent you implying that people like me and Doggerman don't deserve our positions. I live and breathe BA, and just because I wouldnt fly for anyone else - how can that be a bad thing? Didnt you ever wonder how hard that kind of philosophy would be to stick to? If I hadnt passed Id have put myself through hell to get into BA one way or another. Nobody can insinuate that 'people like us' are undeserving. Personally I don't think much of those who would just fly for whoever offered them a job. But I appreciate that what drives them is the love of flying. Different people are driven in different ways. Tokenbird, that post was too harsh. GE XX

how many times did you apply GE ?

Just read through this thread again and decided surely I must have more to say on the subject... I disagree with you again, Tokenbird. Ive seen a few really great guys taken on by BA. Few of them first time round though. We all fail it at some point. And the other point is that I have no flying experience, Ive concentrated on academics all my life - other guys I know worked in other sides of aviation - but that means that we don't know as much as maybe you do about actual flying. And that shouldn't be a point of contention - the BA CEP scheme is there for those who have never flown! Tokenbird. all the best... Ive failed it before too and I know how that felt.

I disagree with BA's selection methods, but I still wouldn't want to fly for anyone else besides BA.

"I will continue to fly until I am eligible for BA's DEP scheme".
That would be my answer if the "what would you do if you were denied?" question arose.

I couldn't imagine having to wait until the next series of testing and interviews and not being able to fly in fear of getting TOO qualified.
What is interesting here is that if I hadn't attained my PPL I would be quite happy to reapply for the cadetship. However, I have a PPL and the flying bug has got a very firm grip on me and it is something I HAVE to keep doing.
If that means sacrificing a potential cadetship then so be it. I'll come back as a DEP.

Girt_bar,

I think you've got by far the best answer there.

Good luck mate, and if you don't make it as a CEP (and I hope you do), see you as a DEP :)

cheers!
foggy (never applied as a CEP)

great expectations,

Where in my posts did I say that people with hours are better? All I was saying was that I thought an interest in aviation was important. My way of demonstrating my interest is my willingness to sell my house and pay my own way if necessary. I admire your allegiance to BA, but I would find it difficult to be excited about a company I didn't yet work for, and allegiance would come later for me.

There are many reasons why people who want to be pilots don't have any hours. I only started flying 2 years ago due to lack of money beforehand, and I'd already decided to become a professional pilot before I even flew a 'plane. So I have nothing against people who apply for the scheme with zero hours. As you said that's what the scheme is for.

Thanks for keeping your fingers crossed for me before the final board. Shame it didn't work, but never mind, I have lots of back-up plans,

TB

Well I got rejected at the final stage by BA CEP. Twice.

But I think their recruitment is pretty good as they throw a lot of time and money at it.

Its true that a few years back a flying enthusists background was as much a hindrance as a help. That has changed a little now and some serious long term commitment to becoming a pilot is a definite plus point.

Remember that there is plenty of aviation outside of BA. In the long run NOT getting the BA sponsorship may prove to have been the best option for me. I had a great summer in 1999 instructing out of my local airfield and having a cracking good laugh. Then a very agreeable spell in Andalucia instructing for BAE Systems before the RHS of a Boeing currently stilled owned and operated by parent company... BA. With time to commands much much quicker than in BA mainline and similar money on the table with no training investment to repay out of salary... As I said, those rejection letters may well turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Keep trying though. Some very very successful pilots have been rejected for sponsorship over the years.

Good luck,

WWW

Different strokes for different folks, as they say - we each come from a wide variety of backgrounds and have as many reasons for wanting to fly. I, however, come at it from a slightly different angle, and in this respect, I find it easier to see Tokenbirds viewpoint. I am not a pilot, but would gladly give anything to fly commercially.

When I was within BA's and the others' eligible age group for sponsorship, *none* of them were taking on cadets - at all. The market was such that they had no need to run the schemes - I even had the Chief Pilot of Monarch tell me they had 'literally hundreds' of type rated pilots (many unemployed) on their waiting list.

Now, I am 37, and none of them will touch me with a bargepole because I am too old.

I am not wealthy enough to pay for my own training, and doubt if I will ever be able to raise that sort of money - but I have an unbridled passion to fly, and I would sell my soul for a chance to get into the right seat of anything, regardless of airline.

I would be in heaven just flying an ageing 707 cargo on the nightshift. For me, it's the flying, not the company, and to read someone say they would give up the chance of sitting in the right seat of an airliner just because they didn't like the people who owned it is beyond my comprehension. :)

No offence meant to anyone's point of view !
...just adding my (bitter, twisted, and scarily obsessive) tuppence worth ! :)

P.s. WWW - glad to see a fellow Welshman here !

[This message has been edited by anengineer (edited 11 May 2001).]

anengineer.

I am with you on this one. I believe the passion for flying should far out way the passion for the company. However, I don't agree that you need to be wealthy to learn to fly. I am working two jobs to keep me in the air. If you want it bad enough, you will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to get it.

Girt_bar

anengineer, i'm with you. perhaps it's down to age(i'm 34),and the way life expierence refines your order of priorities.
but can someone tell what the mystical allure of b.a. is? what happens if you get assigned to one of the amalgamated companies flying under the b.a. banner, or fly with a cpt who joined as a d.e.p.
if you get in great, good for you, but a b.a. or bust agenda just seems truly bizzare!!

Yes schuler_tuned, I asked that earlier: WHAT MAKES BRITISH AIRWAYS SO DIVINE??

What could it be:
1. the money
2. the people
3. the organisation
4. the routes
5. the aircraft
6. the paintjob and logo?

Comments on those points:
1. You can make better money elsewhere
2. Saying the people there are special is an insult to other airlines, and believe me, they're just like at any other airline
3. Huh?
4. You can find those at other airlines too.
5. Same as number 4.
6. You won't see the paintjob in the cockpit anyway.

Now come on guys and girls ("I live and breathe BA"). Have you ever flown a week on the line for BA, not on the jumpseat of course? As mentioned before, I've been there and can't see what all the fuss is about.

It's still just a company.

I reckon this one really just comes down to individual attitude. Im kinda old fashioned and I believe in honour etc. I think there is an element of that still present in BA and Im sorry if it seems silly to think that ideas of corporate pride and loyalty are important in a profession. But I want to be more than just a pilot - I want to be part of something greater than that. GE X

No problem there, I'm all for company loyalty, if it's justified.

But what exactly IS the greater thing than "just being a pilot"?

I hope you'll make it though, GE. But then I also hope that when you're there and have a type rating on your licence that starts with B7.. or A3.. that you'll remember this: no bitching about your salary, that you're not getting enough rest, that the food sucks and the pushback truck doesn't show up.

Are there any known cases of successful CEP's who have quit the scheme because they discovered that they hate flying??!!?!
i.e. they get airsick, or are annoyed by turbulance or who perhaps @#$% themselves when the weather turns bad.

I think you fail to understand Token Bird, that some people are motivated by different things, and that being an accountant as second choice to a job in BA is the best alternative to some people, especially if they cannot afford part sponsorshiops and wish to just fly for fun instead.

Yes BA is just a company, but one with the most opportunities for routes, fleets, management opportunities, training and diversity of people, simply because of its size. Some like size and being able to be another 'face' within the company maintaining a low profile, or having a high profile through the many opportunities. What we must all do is think of these individual attitudes, and consider that the people that Token Bird talks of as great blokes, were simply just not suited to the company culture in the opinion of the interviewers. Token Bird is not an interviewer for BA, and neither am I, but what you see in them is not the same as what they see in them. People who are a great laugh do not always make the best operators, nor are the best operators always the most fun to be with. Who knows: the to$$ers you met, Token Bird, probably for a day at most, may have a hidden talent you did not know about, which the interview picked up on, or the people you assume to be great for the job were in fact perceived to be immature for whatever reason, or over-enthusiatic, with not much behind them when questions delved deeper into their lives.

You cannot categorise the whole of one pilot community as a homogenous group and thus reject the company on that factor, because as much as there is a certain culture in BA to look for potential managers, there is a huge diversity of individuals. They cannot always make the correct decision.

You must allow for some people who think they will be better off in a city job as second choice to BA rather than another flying job, and I perceive among some a jealousy that some can do pretty much any job they want as a backup.

Off for a pint. (edited for typos)

[This message has been edited by Lucifer (edited 12 May 2001).]

At the end of the day we want to fly and who cares who you fly for!

As has been said you can't see the paintwork when you are in the office!!!!!

When I was a lot younger. I was only interested in BA and nothing else! Now I am interested in flying anything. Nevermind if it is a Twin Otter, King Air or a 757 or A340.

I think getting paid to fly is the main thing. What and who you fly for is secondary. It is good to have goals and aims but you must be flexible and consider all you options and accept anything that will allow you to enhance your career!

MG

(P.S. Girt Bar yes there have been one or two cadets that have done the groundschool and when it came to the flying they decided it was not for them.)


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Don't land in a field or the sheep will eat the aircraft.

[This message has been edited by Mister Geezer (edited 12 May 2001).]