Jerez or Kiddlington ?
 

I have been debating this one for a while now and still cannot make up my mind.

Both seem to offer the best of whats around but if anyone had to pick between these 2 what would it be??

Any advice appreciated.:confused:

I doubt if I'm much better informed than you, but here goes!

1 Are you eligible for sponsorship? If you are, then why on earth consider paying for your own training until you have exhausted the opportunities? Personally, I'm going for the CTC McAlpine cadetship (easy and JMC).

2 There seems to be £20000 extra for going to OATS; £72000 as opposed to about £53000. I've been unable to detect any advantage for the extra £20000.

3 Modular appears to be much cheaper but for most people, by the time you've added all the essential extras to the training costs, it will cost about £55000 anyway. The advantage of modular is about an extra 50hrs. The disadvantages are that a small minority of employers don’t understand the difference and the lack of structure to the training.

4 Whichever route, there are lots of extra things to consider such as how you pay for extra flying and tests if needed, travel insurance and so on.

5 Don’t believe anything the school says at the sales stage, especially anything to do with their ability to get you a job. Reading here shows how shallow those promises are.

6 When you are finished, don't expect a job right away unless a) you did really well in training, b) you are well connected and c) you are lucky. Certainly don’t expect a jet job (or salary) unless you are sponsored, or the industry is recruiting like mad as apparently it was until 2001.

7 In making your choice, take much of what is said here with a large pinch of salt; many of the contributors are thinly disguised employees of the schools. The genuine students are by definition unable to compare schools and often tempted to justify their own decisions. That said, the search facility is excellent in giving you a feel.

Good luck mate!

Tony Blair

You quote:

"Modular appears to be much cheaper but for most people, by the time you've added all the essential extras to the training costs, it will cost about £55000 anyway. The advantage of modular is about an extra 50hrs. The disadvantages are that a small minority of employers don’t understand the difference and the lack of structure to the training."

Your comments rather alarm me. Could you explain what 'all the extra essentials' are?

Are you saying that it will be cheaper for me to do an integrated course at Jerez, rather than the modular route?

????

Well Baldrick,

As a student in Jerez, I reckon tonyblair´s words of wisdom are probably the best summary of the situation you will ever read and I´ve been reading pprune for some time!

The modular chappies love to go on about saving 20k but I´ve never seen this quantified and would like to see it so. Another point is the duration of training. I can safely say the majority (80%+) of people here do the whole thing from 0 hours in 15 months including a few weeks hols. Don´t know about Cabair and Oxford integrated courses but I´m sure it´s similar. I have yet to see anything to indicate this is the case with modular. One counter argument to this is what is the rush to finish? - eh like I´d like to get on with the rest of my life pops to mind amongst other obvious responses.

I can´t say one college or route is better than another. As tonyblair points out how could any student? - we have only experienced one college plus I´m as biased as hell (really rate the place). We all (hopefully!) end up with the same fATPL in the end anyway. Different colleges and routes will suit different people. If you fancy getting home every couple of weekends or so, then Jerez is not for you. Every month or so is possible but bloody expensive.

No doubt this thread will turn into the usual old bollocks about modular versus integrated. Well I think you´ve made up your mind to go integrated so let us hope you get some good feedback on just that.

Modular: Allows you to complete each stage at your own pace. Very useful for those who want/need to hold down a fulltime job to pay for everything. Time wise and financially more flexible. Budget for approx GBP45-60k.

Integrated: Allows you to complete the course in 12-15 months. Very useful for those who want/need intensive instruction. Budget for upto 20% on top of course costs for additional training/resits etc.

End result: Exactly the same licence in your grubby paw.

Some employers might be swayed by which school you went to, many not. How you come across in your cv/interview/sim ride will decide if you get the job or not.

It is important to visit each school for yourself and make up your own mind. You are spending a very large amount of money in anyones book and you will be spending a year of your life at the establishment. You need to feel comfortable with where you are, there are times when you will feel extremely miserable due to the way your training is going (it is natural, everyone screws something up at some stage).

Also use the search facility, this topic comes up regularly on PPRuNe.

To add my 2 pennies worth. I think the people that go on about saving £20k (or thereabouts) generally assume that you will work fulltime whilst studying towards the ATPL theory OR do not take into account the salary sacrifice if you go the integrated approach.

The £20k saving going modular IMHO is total rubbish. OK, it is cheaper to go modular but it is also the lengthier route and less respected (apparently) by the airlines. In the old days pre-JAA modular (known then as the self improver route) might easily have saved you £20k but not now.

I was on an integrated course but left to follow the modular route for a number of non-aviation related reasons. I was reasonably happy on the integrated course but for me personally, modular works best. I am not working, I stopped to concentrate full time on passing exams. You can go modular now and give up work and maybe pass in the same time as an integrated student but it is unlikely. Might be able to push a couple of months difference.

At the end of the day the sole reasons for either route should be purely personal. It is your choice and no route can be said to better or worse than the other.

What suits you?

VFE.

I absoultely agree with bigfatsweatysock, I have been trained in Spain with good result and even cheaper ! (Not in Jerez but in Valencia) and at the end of the day - and mainly if you don't have contacs - with the Licence in your pocket, your pilot skills are your best presentation card.

Jerez or Oxford ? It is the same ... where your budget can achieve and the rest will come depending your pilot skills ...

Dennisb.

VFE you quote: (re modular)

"it is also the lengthier route"

What's the rush? Is there a massive demand amongst airlines for pilots at the moment????


Dennis B - You have your license. Well done. What airline are you with at the moment? How hefty is your salary? Maybe i should change my intended route.

How sad is it that the subject of mod v int has arisen yet again.

I guess some useful input from past students of both institutions would be of help....

Number Cruncher,

I was merely stating a fact that the modular route is the lengthier route. End of story.

You obviously didn't read into my post too well did you?

I don't think it's sad the topic of integrated versus modular has arisen again. Times change, schools come and go - the question "which route is best for whom" remains a contemporary one.

Jerez v Kiddlington? I would say Jerez for the sun but Kiddlington for the commercial attitude of the company.

VFE.

Thanks for the responses.

I have already made the decison to go integrated. I believe that I perform better when everything but the kitchen sink is thrown at me. I also think that if you do something like this then all your efforts should be concentrated and focused to the end goal, so I'm very much from the school of thought of eating, breathing, sleeping and sh@#ting the whole experience.

What has attracted me to Jerez is the campus like enviornment. However, what are the hidden pitfalls, if any? Is the course content and notes easy to follow? Is there sufficient help should you need it, if you find a topic hard to tackle? How many people are there and what is the atmosphere like socially as well as academically?
What is it like to study in the peak of summer when you are not used to living in such a different climate?

A lot of questions I know but it is difficult to establish these from a course outline.

' A plan so cunning you could attach a tail to it and call it a weasel'

This weeks flyings mags show a number of schools in the UK offering a CPL/IR/Multi course for £15,000.

You can go to Florida and hours build at £35hr Wet.

Distance learning ATPL's and exams can be done for <£3,000.

I *know* of someone who has fairly recently gone from nothing to CPL/IR Frzn ATPL for £35,000 incl living and accom costs.

Its very hard work mind. But its very much cheaper than £60,000 odd.


WWW

ok

How about this for a costing of modular at current prices ppl and hourbuilding in the US

Flights 600
Hour Build 3500
ATPL's 3200
Exams 900
CPL/IR/MEP 15000
GFTS 3000
Living expenses 4000 3 months doing cpl etc, 4 weeks US
PPL 3000
Medical 400
Lic issue 300
Equipment 400 Headset + Nav kit etc
MCC 2000


Your just the wrong side of 36k but i have increased everything on purpose.

Time off work

3 weeks PPL
brush up courses 4 weeks
exams 1 week
Hour build 4 weeks
Cpl/mep/ir full time 13 weeks
MCC 1 week

Which is 26 weeks


So for someone earning 25K a year after tax and presuming that you don't get any paid holidays. Lost earnings are going to be 12K so over all cost is going to be @46k

Intergrated Cost 52k lost earnings working on 15 months 31k
Total 83k this dosn't include extra food beer etc while on course.

So not counting lost wages you are 17k better off modular

Including Lost wages for someone on approx 35K a year your saving 37k

I think this is a reasonable assesment of costings for the 2.
Infact in some ways i am being 2 fair to intergrated because i have no idea what the price includes.

I can't see them paying for your GFT and plane hire 1500
Medical 400
Lic issue 300
Equipment 400
Exam fees 900

MJ

When I attended an Integrated course everything was included (assuming one acheives within the course minima). The Int V Mod battle is stupid I think. Each path has it's own difficulties/advantages, both with the same result. End of story.
Good luck with your training whichever FTO you choose. :)

cunningplanmylord
 

I have looked at a large number of flight schools.

The one that did stand out from the rest was Jerez.
Yes it is a lot of cash, but at the end of the day I believe their attitude and the working environment is best suited for me (An ex-bording school kid!).

All the current and ex-students have only had good things to say about the establishment.
Dont' worry about the weather Aircon takes care of it all. Currently there is about 200 students on campus.
There is numberous self help aids avalible to students.

Remember the best way for you make up your mind is to spend a few quid on a ticket to Jerez (Buzz flies there once a day). Then you can make your own mind up! Everyone has different requirements.

But what about OATS I hear you scream! Do a search for 'Oxford bad for self sponsored?' This shall answer all. Considering a full fire fight of words broke out over this subject!

Just another guy riding the wave of uncertainty!;)

It cost me about £45,000 all told to go modular - I ended up with 250 hours of which 50 were multi.

Buzz only fly in once per week now - and always seem full/expensive.

However, www.ba.com are offering good prices to Sevilla (Seville) from London, as are Iberia (I just bought christmas tickets at €120 plus tax, RETURN!). Try www.ebookers.co.uk if you are coming from the UK.

www.flightline.es and www.thetravelshop.com (if it is working for a change) will throw up good prices on the charter operators.

Sevilla is about 1 hour by road from Jerez airport - the train runs to Jerez city but that is a 15minute cab ride from the airport itself.

I would offer one piece of advice if you come here - bring a car. petrol is only 50p per litre (diesel cheaper) and that 15 minute taxi ride can make the campus seem very remote from the town.

Spot on moggie,

Whatever you do bring a car (or a motorbike like me - even better in the sun :)). You cannot buy a banger here until you get residency in Spain - that whole process is looked after by the college but takes months and months due to v.speedy Spanish civil service.

If you can´t rustle up the money for a car on your own, try and get something together with one or two of your future classmates in the UK if you decide on Jerez. Apart from just nipping down the shops, there are the miles and miles of beaches, Seville, superb mountainy bits and generally bloody brilliant part of the world to visit on your days off.

Not sure about the Spanish residency thing McQuire. Some of the lads got their car after a couple of weeks when I was there.

Remember you can always hire the mini bus for up to two hours as well. I took a mate to Seville in it one morning but they have a max dist rule now.

VFE.

Ah those spanish roads. Miles and miles of uncongested wide curving roads with not a speed camera in sight. That road from Jerez to Malaga over the mountains via Rhonda is just brilliant.

The car advice is good. Budget on you and 4 mates investing £500 each in wheels. It will make the whole year much more enjoyable and you can always sell it on to new students presuming you don't wrap in round a gaslamp in the strand...

Blas at the Ford dealership is a good English speaking used carsalesman to talk to.

It is increasingly feasible to fly to Faro in Portugal and then drive to Seville and then Jerez.

It takes the same time as flying to Malaga and then driving I have found due to the excellent road from Faro to Seville. Otherwise BA to Seville is a good deal lately.

WWW