ICAO CPL conversion to EASA ATPL(f)
 

Hello everyone. First thank you for taking your time to read my post.

I am looking for information about hour requirement to convert my Canadian CPL(A) into a EASA ATPL(f).

First, are EASA requirements the same throughout EU? Or different countries might have slightly different requirements for a ATPL(f)?

Second, did I understood correctly that the difference between holding a EASA CPL(A) and a ATPL(f) are the 13 ATPL exams? so a ATPL(f) is CPL(A) + the 13 ATPL exams? Or are additional hours involved?

Third, I am looking specifically for what hours do I still need to buy at a ATO in order to achieve the minimum required to convert my Canadian CPL(A) into EASA ATPL(f) (besides the 13 theoretical exams).

For the 3rd question here are my hours. If additional breakdown is required, please let me know and I can provide.
TT: 1600+
Multi: 1300+ (of which 900 on turbojet but I'm sure this does not matter)
Cross Country: 700+
Actual IR: 150+ (I only logged actual in-cloud flying). If I were to log the entire commercial flights, it would be 900+.
PIC: 105 of which 70 on helo
PIC Cross Country day: 45 of which 30 on helo
PIC Cross Country night: 5

As you may notice, I am severely lacking in PIC and starting with a CPL helo, then converted into a fixed-wing CPL in Canada isn't help I'm sure. I am FO at an airline, but there is no system in Canada to gain the necessary hours for ATPL requirement, and Canada does not have a frozen ATPL system. I would literally have to rent a C152 and do circuits for 150hrs to unlock the hour requirement. Very pointless when I'm currently flying a commercial jet and very expensive.

My understanding is that in Europe once you have a ATPL(f) all the required hrs to unlock the ATPL can all be done from the right seat on any multi certified aircraft, with the minimum hour requirements for a CPL.

Therefore, in order to achieve the EASA ATPL(f), besides the 13 ATPL theoretical exams, what are the exact hours that I still need to do at a ATO? I assume there will still be some single engine PIC and most likely some multi engine PIC as well? Is the Instrument Rating transferable?

Thank you very much!

Before we go down the EASA rabbit hole: I understand you need more PIC hours in order to obtain a Canadian ATPL? Is there any chance you can log some PICUS time at your operator that is credited towards the required PIC time? It would be much easier (and cheaper) to convert a Canadian ATPL to an EASA one.

No, Canada only allows a max of 100hrs as PICUS for the 250hr ATPL requirement and it's a full bureaucracy to even get those 100hrs at company (and they require to already have a minimum 150hrs PIC). Canada also does not count any helo PIC towards ATPL (even though they do to convert to fixed wing CPL, hence how I ended up with only 35hr fixed wing PIC).

Well, unfortunately EASA also requires 100 PIC hours for a CPL(A). And those hours need to be fixed wing, so your helicopter hours would only count towards total time but you have more than enough of that anyway.

To answer your questions:

1) In general, the requirements for a CPL/ATPL are the same in every EASA state. There might be some regional specialties but that mainly boils down to how well the CAA is managed and how expensive the training/licensing might be.

2) It's correct that an EASA CPL including an ATPL theory credit is informally called ATPL(f). It's the same license just with a remark regarding the completed ATPL theory exams. The requirements to obtain an actual ATPL are laid out in EASA Part FCL.510.A:

If you can tick all these boxes you may conduct an ATPL check ride on your rated type (simulator of course) and finally get your license unfrozen.

3) This is hard to answer. The way to go would be to get in touch with an ATO and they would work out an individual training plan for you. In the end you'll need the minimum required hours for a CPL(A) and the ATO must evaluate you're fit for the EASA CPL MEP IR checkride (this can be done in a single or separate checks as you like).

Bear in mind that towards your ATPL you'll still need to match the PIC and or PICUS hours quoted above and that an MCC is required.

Thank you very much ulys.

1. I googled MPL and it's a Multi-Crew Pilot Licence. How is that different compared to a CPL? Can any credit be awarded for getting an MPL (instead of CPL) with hours on a commercial jet?
2. The requirements under (b) are on top of the CPL requirements?
3. (c) mentions 50% credit for helo, but only for (b) which is ATPL, not applicable to the CPL pre-requisite?

Lastly, if the hours are cheaper, can I complete the PIC hrs to 100 fixed wing in Canada and then do a straight up EASA CPL(A) conversion, which would then only require the CPL MEP IR checkride?

P.S. I forgot to mention I also own the Canadian CPL Helicopter as well, if converting the Canadian CPL(H) into EASA CPL(H), then converting to EASA CPL(A) has lower hour requirements. I could not find any hour requirements though for converting EASA CPL(H) into EASA CPL(A). Converting ICAO CPL(H) (Canadian) into EASA CPL(H) says it requires 155 TT (not sure if helo only) and 50hrs PIC, which I already have on helos.

1) An MPL is a construct that is used by airlines that train their own cadets. It has in fact some lower hour requirements that come at the price that you have to complete your 1500h with the airline you trained with. Personally, I don't see this is anything that could help you.

2) That is correct. The mentioned requirements under b) are required in addition to a CPL with ATPL theory credit and and MCC. But the hours from your CPL are fully credited. So after all you somehow need at least 250h PIC in your logbook, of which 70h need to be actual PIC and the rest may be PICUS.

3) Helicopter time could be credited as total time this applies to CPL (250h TT) and ATPL (1500h TT). But since you already have more than enough total time for either license this does not really apply to your case.

You could actually complete your 100h PIC in Canada and this is what I would recommend. Then you'd still have to consult with an EASA ATO and they would probably want you to complete some hours with an FI but then I guess you'd be ready for your checkride quite soon and could get the EASA CPL.

However, if I understand correctly with 100h PIC and some paperwork, you'd also just be 50h PIC short of obtaining a Canadian ATPL right? If I were in your shoes I'd lean back, get those PIC hours and the PICUS bureaucracy worked out and then convert the ATPL. This will be cheaper, easier, you'll end up with two full ATPLs and can pursue the European airlines with an ATPL right away.

Thank you for your insight.

Once I reach the 100h PIC, I'd need an additional 50h PIC (so almost double since I currently need 65h to reach 100h on fixed wing), to be able to request PICUS from my company, except that would easily take a few years, and that only if PICUS no longer expires after 12 months (I heard rumors Transport Canada removed the expiry due to COVID, but they could always re-introduce it, if they didn't already, which would make it impossible to get 100 PICUS in one year). The PICUS program is Canada is almost impossible unless you are with a small company that can dedicate a lot of time with the PICUS, huge difference compared to the EASA PICUS which I understood it's extremely easy to log at any airline. My understanding was also that with my hours, once I have a ATPL(f) I would be hireable at many airlines in EU and can easily unfrozen it from the right seat.

Ah I'm sorry to hear it's that complicated in Canada. It is true, logging PICUS under EASA is comparably simple. The airline you're employed with just needs some paragraph in their OM-A regarding this issue. For my operator, it basically says that an FO does the same things as a commander during our operation and if CM1 signs the remark field of my logbook I may log that particular leg as PICUS time.

I'd say your understanding is correct. With an ATPL(f) you can apply for many airline jobs in Europe. Of course given the fact that you have a citizenship of or other permanent right to live and work in any EU member state.

Grey area. My EASA authority allowed me to credit helicopter hours towards the 100 PIC required for CPL(A) but only if I held a valid EASA CPL(H). Total pedantry. I had flown those hours on an FAA commercial but it was still cheaper for me to spend 10 hours getting the EASA CPL(H) than it was to build the extra airplane PIC.

Regarding the 13 ATPL exams. Are their validity for 3 years from the date of passing the last exam? When will they be "locked-in", no longer expiring?

What was the credit, 50%? What was the max? You already had all the hours you needed to transfer to EASA CPL(H) thus not requiring any extra flight hours in EU? I was looking at that and they require 155hr for EASA CPL(H). But they say "total". Is that 155hr rotary only or can fixed wing be credited?

Me with 135hrs and 70 PIC helo maybe could come out ahead than paying for an additional 60hrs PIC fixed wing for the EASA CPL(A).

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....736e1a3f46.jpg
You can credit 100 helicopter hours towards the CPL(A) as long as you hold an EASA CPL(H). Obviously there's a lot of grey areas so it's down to the individual NAA to interpret the rules. Mine interpreted it to mean that the Helicopter PIC could count as airplane PIC which makes sense if you think it through: A PPL course and a CPL course is an absolute minimum of 50 hours dual. If they also required you to have 100 PIC(A) then why the 100 hour credit? 50 would make more sense. Ergo the PIC can count towards PIC.

In your case you would need to weigh up the cost of 65 hours PIC in an airplane against the cost of an EASA CPL(H) conversion (I think you need 155 for that?). I was in a similar situation and I got myself an extra licence for free plus saved a bit on money.

Thank you very much.

Unfortunately, I read that as the Helo PIC time can be counted against "total" time, not PIC. This is definitely something that each NAA can interpret in their own way and I'd need to contact them about it.