Skybourne - Ryanair Future Flyer Academy
 

The course is £131,400 am I missing somethere here? AFTA in cork have the same programme for 50 grand cheaper

This is for dual licence courses so people come out with both UK and EASA licences

Skyborne includes accommodation whereas AFTA doesn't so I assume that'd probably account for about £15k assuming an 18 month course. From what I've seen a dual licence usually costs in the region of £5k more, not £50k more. The AFTA price is in Euros, so the Sterling equivalent is probably about £80k.

Dual costs 10k extra at least, as they have to do 2 sets of ATPLs and 2 sets of IR/CPL

If the examiner is dual rated then the CPL test can be done in one go but, yes, the IR will need to be done twice due to EASA IR required to be conducted EU airspace and CAA IR in UK airspace, as ridiculous as that is.

The price is madness. Bartolini charge 58k GBP for UK citizens - how can anyone justify 131k?

From the brochure:

I make that to be about £76,300 for AFTA and £10,260 for L3 so that gives you a rough cost of £86,560 not including accommodation as pointed out above.

Also a few assessment fees such as an online (CUT-E): €79 fee and a further €300 fee to take place in Cork. Class 1, licence and exam fees also aren't included.

You can't. For £131k I could get a CPL/IR+FI for FAA, CAA and EASA in both Airplanes and helicopters with maybe a couple of float plane ratings thrown in for good measure...

I have been considering applying to this scheme but I am not clear on how conditional the job offer is. The Ryanair website states there is a 98% pass rate at the final Ryanair Cadet assessment which seems pretty high. Is there something I am missing?

I take it all back. £2000 an hour seems perfectly reasonable.

This is often quoted, but not exactly correct. In both sets of regs the requirement to complete the IR test in home airspace only exists if the ATO is operating out of State. For instance, A UK approved ATO can test for the IR in UK, EASA, or any airspace. Thus you could very easily have a UK-based ATO, approved for both UK and EASA IRs (the EASA approval being out-of-State), conducting a single IR test for both licences in EASA airspace. The associated problem, though, is finding an examiner qualified to test for both licences.

Thanks Alex. Taking FTEJerez as an example, they have been using a UK-based ATO to conduct IR flight tests for cadets enrolled on UK CAA training programmes. Now they have confirmed a new out-of-state base opening at Oxford Airport in the UK, does it mean they could use the site to conduct a dual licence IR flight test in the UK, subject to the examiner being dual rated?

The regulation is ORA.ATO.150 Training in third countries
When the ATO is approved to provide training for the instrument rating (IR) in third countries:
(a) the training programme shall include acclimatisation flying in one of the Member States before the IR skill test is taken; and
(b) the IR skill test shall be taken in one of the Member States.

By my reading, if FTE (EASA approval) contracted a UK-based and approved ATO to deliver IR training and test that would require 'acclimatisation' training and test in EASA airspace. Similarly, if an FTE company obtained UK approval, it could contract FTE (EASA approval) to conduct the major part of the training in Jerez with 'acclimatisation' and test being conducted under the aegis of both ATOs in UK airspace.

They give you the job offer before you start training, and I believe ryanair actually want you to get the job, that’s why the pass rate is so high, the mentoring must be good through the integrated course. And they apparently give you another attempt if you fail the first one.

Not sure I understand your point, Alex. FTE has both EASA and UK approvals. FTE (UK approval) company has been using a third party in the UK to deliver IR acclimatisation and testing for its cadets enrolled on UK CAA training programmes, presumably including its Speedbird Academy Programme with BA, rather than conducting them inhouse at Jerez. I cannot see them doing this for any other reason than regulations requiring it. On the flip side, as the EASA regulation you quote states: '(b) the IR still test shall be taken in one of the Member States' it seems pretty clear to me that FTE (EASA approval) company must undertake IR acclimatisation flying and testing in EASA-land, meaning FTE couldn't use their Oxford base for this. Therefore a cadet undertaking a dual-licence white-tail training programme with FTE would need to undertake IR acclimatisation flying and testing in both Spain and the UK to comply with regulations.

Looking at it from a UK perspective, the former training school at Shoreham - FTA Global - which ended in scandal, offered dual-licence white-tail integrated fATPL training programmes and had access to dual-rated examiners. The CPL skills test was conducted by a dual-rated examiner, was undertaken in UK airspace, and covered both licences. When it came to the IR, however, these were done separately - the UK IR in UK airspace and the EASA IR over in Le Touquet, often conducted by the same dual-rated examiner.

Am I missing something?

My dual ATO also does a separate UK and EASA test, one on either side of La Manche. Are we saying it’s technically possible to do a single test with a dual-rated examiner?

If so can someone please tell my ATO so I can save a couple of grand.

Do you think they would want you to know that?

I believe if you do take the TR as a 'bond' you actually don't have a reduced salary. There is a document I found earlier going through all of this. Search ryanair type ratind sribd

Age
 

I would ask one question related to this thread and you are all welcome to answer; I have the money, I have a PPL so I have this passion in my blood, I am a doctor but I commercial flying was always my dream, I fly my own RV12iS, buuut.....I'm 49 years old. Would that be a problem for Ryanair at the final interview?

Not at all. I think that most people applying to such schemes who don't have the bank of mum and dad helping them will be well in their 20s, 30s, and 40s with plenty of useful 'life experience' and sufficient savings to last through the programme. They would have plenty of examples of grafting through life and a track record of achievement, which are obviously all valuable traits.