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-   Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies-14/)
-   -   AFTA, Simtech, VA or any other school for APS MCC (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/621763-afta-simtech-va-any-other-school-aps-mcc.html)

737fan 9th June 2019 22:53


Originally Posted by robingre991 (Post 10481268)
uncle dickie;

Thank you for the input. I'm looking for a school to do my MCC or APS but haven't decided yet. Reading some reports here and there are a lot of pros and cons for each. My budget limits me but I want to invest in the best way. Because you find more A320 in Europe I think it will be on that one. I'm not looking for Ryan more for easy or Brussels. What do you think? And they only require a standard MCC.

Just found an offer for A320 based APS MCC in Hungary. Cost is 5499 Euro. School is Pilots ATO in Budapest. Could be interesting for you.

Lotta777 10th June 2019 11:51

CRM Europe's CEO wrote a meaningful post
 
Just check their website. Can't post a link cuz I'm new here. Words to think about...

travis.karl 10th June 2019 12:21

Rob Howard's comment on APS
 
Hey there.
Usually I'm not doing this but have a look at this comment. It's about important facts to consider before you take an APS MCC.
https://www.pprune.org/professional-...l#post10490456
Or visit CRM Europe's news section.

robingre991 12th June 2019 13:10


Originally Posted by 737fan (Post 10490146)
Just found an offer for A320 based APS MCC in Hungary. Cost is 5499 Euro. School is Pilots ATO in Budapest. Could be interesting for you.

Merci beaucoup!
I will contact Pilots ATO. AFTA not replying. Maybe too many mail request. Decided against Sky4u although some friends recommended. Now some of my friends say if they knew before would go to another flight school.
Thanks here for your support.


travis.karl 17th June 2019 00:11


Originally Posted by robingre991 (Post 10492072)
Merci beaucoup!
I will contact Pilots ATO. AFTA not replying. Maybe too many mail request. Decided against Sky4u although some friends recommended. Now some of my friends say if they knew before would go to another flight school.
Thanks here for your support.


Dear robingre991,
please checkout some standard MCC providers too. TFC, RWL and Cockpit4u are good flight schools with a high number of school leavers finding a job in a relatively short time frame. All without an APS.

Trevi85 17th June 2019 15:35

Spanish flight school
 
Result of my research is that we don't have any Spanish FS offering APS
But gossip is that it's in the planning. I think it will be with one major like FTE. Can't wait so long. I will visit VA and Simtech first. Then maybe Cockpit4u if I get a cheap ticket

travis.karl 21st June 2019 20:40


Originally Posted by Trevi85 (Post 10495912)
Result of my research is that we don't have any Spanish FS offering APS
But gossip is that it's in the planning. I think it will be with one major like FTE. Can't wait so long. I will visit VA and Simtech first. Then maybe Cockpit4u if I get a cheap ticket

While the APS was hyped for several months it became clear by now that it didn't get the attention and the big numbers some schools hoped for. Standard MCC numbers at most traditional flight schools are steady and somewhat constant. That's what I heard. I'm happy that most students didn't run into this trap.
​​

2unlimited 22nd June 2019 10:47


Originally Posted by travis.karl (Post 10499960)
While the APS was hyped for several months it became clear by now that it didn't get the attention and the big numbers some schools hoped for. Standard MCC numbers at most traditional flight schools are steady and somewhat constant. That's what I heard. I'm happy that most students didn't run into this trap.
​​

That is good to hear, as it's no doubt another "FTO scheme" to try to squeeze much extra thousands of EUROS out of students.
Having been in the position within the last 10 years looking for my first job, I can fully understand the frustration some feel when they have spent a small fortune completing their CPL/IR.

Equally I would advice someone who is in their mid / late 20's or early/mid 30's, that getting stuck into an airline straight away, might seem great at first, but specially in the LCC industry, many face burnout within 10 - 15 years, some even faster, and only option to continue working is going part time.

In the mind of someone applying for their first job, just desperate to fly, this might sound crazy as all they wish at this moment of time is to fly as much as possible, this notion will eventually change with most guys after they have been "abused" enough.

I am not wanting to deter people from a flying career, just telling it how it is. So enjoy flying when you can, chances with airlines does come for most sooner or later. It took me about 18 months from completing my training to get my first job. Some guys even faster, the frustration is great during that initial search, but it's easy to think another extra "Sim course" is going to make it easier, or solve the problem to get the job.

I will repeat what I have said before, save your money, use it wisely, when you get the interview with a specific airline, that's when it's time to splash the cash on sim session, to prepare for that specific airline.

uncle dickie 22nd June 2019 19:18


Originally Posted by Trevi85 (Post 10495912)
Result of my research is that we don't have any Spanish FS offering APS
But gossip is that it's in the planning. I think it will be with one major like FTE. Can't wait so long. I will visit VA and Simtech first. Then maybe Cockpit4u if I get a cheap ticket

FTE might be APS approved by the Spanish Regulator? And they have a new A320 FTD1 recently approved. Not cheap but quality training.

737fan 24th June 2019 07:54

Update for RYR candidates
 
Many new cadets invited and passed RYR with MCC only, most of them no APS students. On other hand many APS students failed. That's what I heard from inside.

parkfell 24th June 2019 09:28


Originally Posted by 737fan (Post 10501631)
Many new cadets invited and passed RYR with MCC only, most of them no APS students. On other hand many APS students failed. That's what I heard from inside.

If what you are saying is correct then it does raise some interesting questions:

1. Have you misheard what you were told? Was this just an off the cuff remark ~ a throw away line ? Just how close to the throne was your inside source? In essence, is this snippet actually true & the stats confirm it.

2. Taking your comment on face value, it cannot say much about the quality of certain providers who conduct APS?
Were those who attended APS courses, and failed Ryanair selection recognised by the providers as very marginal at best, and just scraped a PASS by the skin of their teeth?

3. A competent junior birdman attending a MCC or MCC/JOC at a quality provider will undoubtedly be successful. They do need to have been taught well during the light ac phrase. They then produce these basics skills during MCC viz. selecting an attitude and accurate trimming. It is as straightforward as that. The MCC then teaches the 2 crew skills for PF & PM.

If I had to express a view on the quotation, I would challenge the veracity of the statement. Half truths at best?

MaverickPrime 24th June 2019 20:55

~50% of MCC holders fail their RYR assessment

~25% of APS MCC holders fail their RYR assessment

Not much more to say really.

2unlimited 24th June 2019 22:06


Originally Posted by MaverickPrime (Post 10502134)
~50% of MCC holders fail their RYR assessment

~25% of APS MCC holders fail their RYR assessment

Not much more to say really.

And whats the source for your stats?

I know before APS MCC the pass rate of MCC holders was 100%.

parkfell 25th June 2019 05:42


Originally Posted by 2unlimited (Post 10502169)
And whats the source for your stats?

I know before APS MCC the pass rate of MCC holders was 100%.

And the source of your stats? How many in the sample? Period covered by your assertion?

It would be truly remarkable if 100% success rate occurred for any group.

It would be interesting to analyse the actual success rate of those who complete purely MCC 4/5, and those who complete a MCC/JOC course. The issue is that as the JOC element is not regulated, there are no mandatory elements.

Reputable providers however will be offering fairly similar courses covering the elements specified by EASA for APS.

The quote is most likely a wind up to provoke reaction. Porkies?


RYRCadetRecruitment 25th June 2019 14:16

Good afternoon all,
We can confirm what MaverickPrime said about assessment stats.
This information is also available on our career page.
Our statistics show that over 50% of newly qualified pilots who hold a CPL, frozen ATPL theoretical exams, ME/IR and a standard MCC fail at the initial assessment.
Thank you

pilotatlast 25th June 2019 18:09

I see Skyborne Airline Academy are offering APS MCC on their new B737 Max simulator at their base at Gloucestershire airport

chafra 25th June 2019 19:47


Originally Posted by RYRCadetRecruitment (Post 10502642)
Good afternoon all,
We can confirm what MaverickPrime said about assessment stats.
This information is also available on our career page.
Our statistics show that over 50% of newly qualified pilots who hold a CPL, frozen ATPL theoretical exams, ME/IR and a standard MCC fail at the initial assessment.
Thank you

Yeah, but there are more standard MCC pilots than APS MCC pilots. 50% of let's say 5000 is still 2500. Whereas 25% of 10 is 2,5, leaving 7,5 to pass. You don't tell these facts. It worked all the years with a simple MCC and some screening prep. Altogether for less money than 6,5k or more

parkfell 26th June 2019 16:02


Originally Posted by RYRCadetRecruitment (Post 10502642)
Good afternoon all,
We can confirm what MaverickPrime said about assessment stats.
This information is also available on our career page.
Our statistics show that over 50% of newly qualified pilots who hold a CPL, frozen ATPL theoretical exams, ME/IR and a standard MCC fail at the initial assessment.
Thank you

I see that Ryanair have approved Virtual Aviation to conduct their bespoke APS/MCC courses.
So the potential for a seamless transition from MCC to type rating for junior birdmen.

Lotta777 27th June 2019 13:58

VA and RYR
 
VA is high quality. I have many coworkers that have completed their training at VA. But I still don't get the point why APS is that much advertised
​​​​​

KT1988 27th June 2019 19:36

@parkfell: Did VA become Ryanair officaly approved APS MCC provider like AFTA and Sky4U ? That would be perfect since their offer for APS MCC looked most interesting.

I checked on their website it looks like a new program appeared like 2 days ago and its a Ryanair approved program, ofc. there is an extra assessment included to prepare for as bonus to the regular Ryanair assessment (that should be everything). Wonder if they made it relevant to flying like the later real assessment or if they created some DLR like stuff that does require a lot of lengthy preparation but is of no use in real flying. Hopefully they made it relevant to flying and someone will give some feedback about it before its my turn to apply.


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