Any CTC / L3 reviews?
 

Hi guys,

I'm hesitating between 2 FTO for my modular training: Ctc (L3) and FTE Jerez.

I chose FTE but I was too late for the January session so they proposed to come in April but it's too late for me, I don't want to wait.

So I'm turning to L3 airline academy and I have a few questions about this school as I heard and read different opinions.

L3 announces a duration of 18 weeks for the CPL IR/ME. But it seems that most of the students completed their training between 6 and 7 months (MCC included I think).

I also heard that at L3 you could have a lot of different instructors in a short time. For me that's something bad for the quality of the training.

I also feel that in this school you're more like a figure to them than a "student". Compare to FTE which seems maybe more "familial".

About the AQC. When you pass the entry test and then pay the 9K£ are you sure to finish it and have access to the pool or you can be eliminated because of anything and lose the 9K£? I'm a little bit confused about the AQC.

Does anybody know what's the current state of the AQC pilot pool?

If anyone who's done their training at this school or is currently studying there can express their thoughts/feelings I'll appreciate it!


Thanks :)

hi,

first of all, if april is too late for you think again. If you still need to go through the selection process with L3, the earliest you can start is probably February or so. which is only a 2 months difference.

I personally think that the choice for a flight school should be made on your personal experience during the open day and the feeling you have with the instructors, company structure, location etc. During the flight training there is a lot going on and you need to be able to focus yourself on the training.

Don't change your mind over maybe a 2 months earlier start. Use those 2 months to prepare yourself with maths and read through the ATPL books.

FTE is a great school, so is L3. You really have to make the decision based on your feeling with both flight schools. At the moment FTE seems to have a slight edge in terms of airline placement since the AQC holdpool at L3 is piling up due to Easyjet not hiring from them at the moment. I am sure that will be resolved by the time you finish your training with L3.

L3 does have very good and professional instructors during ground school as well as the flight training.

9k GBP for AQC? Are you referring to integrated or modular training with both schools? If you go fully integrated with L3 the AQC is included. After completion of AQC they will place you in the holding pool and they will try and get you an interview with one of their partner airlines. They will look into your overall performance during the flight training to see if you are suitable for a particular airline. Think about the maximum amount of groundschool fails, avarage, first series passes CPL and IR and solid performance throughout AQC.

As I said earlier. Think again. Make your decision based on what you think. Flight school preference is very personal and as you said FTE might be a little bit more familial. If that is important to you, go for FTE!

I didn't know about that.

That's mainly why I chose L3. To have a chance to join EZ. But it's a poker move to say I'll go to L3 hoping EZ will hire there again.

About the 9K I was speaking for the modular training, as I already have my ppl and atpl.

If anyone else can express their thoughts about their experience at L3 it would help a lot.

Anyway, aerodestination, thanks for your good advices!

Easyjet seem to be still taking cadets from FTE. How full is the L3 holding pool? I'd imagine that it affects their whitetail ATPL candidates as well as the ACQ candidates. The feed to Easyjet was their primary placement route.

Yes FTE is still hiring at FTE but only the integrated students which is not my case.

Can you tell a little bit more what you are planning to do with both FTO's? As I might have misread it. Do you already have your PPL and hours? Including all 14 ground school subjects?

And Alex, I am not sure about the numbers that are currently in the pool, but it has been way less earlier this year. For about the past 4 months, Easyjet hasn't hired anyone from the holding pool. The problem is the backlog in typeratings. So people who were hired earlier this year, some are still waiting to start their type rating course. That is why they stopped hiring for now.

So this issue should resolve itself on the longer run. But for now the holding pool is increasing and I quite a few people are waiting or applying by them selfs to airlines externally.

for the OP. If you only plan to to CPL/ME/IR and MCC/AQC with a FTO, I don't think that L3 will offer you that much of a benefit anyway for the price you pay. They will always prefer their own whitetail students over modular students in the holding pool. You will be drowning somewhere deep in that holding pool while you paid big money, probably better to save some money with another FTO that can provide you with the same ratings and that will leave you in pretty much the same spot in terms of job opportunities

FTE Jerez has a ‘flight deck plus’ program for PPL holders with 150+ hours and their ATPL written exams passed.
If prestige is important to you, then this is about as ‘top of the line’ as I would go.
Remember it’s not where you start your flight training that counts.
It’s where you graduate from.

The same goes for CTC/L3.
I would only go there for a A320/B737 type rating.

Yes I already have my PPL with the hours required and my 14 ATPL certificates. I'm just looking for an FTO where I can do my CPL/ME/IR.

I know some guys that were modular at L3 and some that didn't even go to L3 but just did the AQC and they got placed at EZ. It was around 1 year ago when the pool was almost empty. So yes you are called after the whitetail but it depends the depth of the pool... But right now the pool is on hold so I guess it's not the right time. Who knows when the situation will change..


It's not that prestige is that much important for me. I'm just looking to maximize my chances to get a job at the end of my training.

I have heard good stories about BCFT in Bournemouth. And maybe Simtech for MCC/JOC? Seems to be a popular route for modular students.

I can completely understand that 4 months delay is not something you want especially if you already passed your ATPL theory and have your hours.

I had a look at the CTC AQC scheme just over a year ago and went to the selection day (it was free at the time). During the sales spiel they briefly mentioned that the hold pool is tiered with the integrated bods in the top tier, people who did some component of their fATPL in the middle and the AQC only at the bottom. They were vague about the whole thing and couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me the mechanics of how the different tiers were called up for opportunities. This lack of clarity and evasiveness was a major factor in me turning them down and going elsewhere.

I would add the caveat that this was over a year ago, so things may have changed. It is however an important thing to nail down before handing over your hard earned cash.

Well done getting your PPL and hours and 14 exams passed.
This certainly is the best way to go.

It like most things in life do, comes down to money.
If €50,000 for a CPL /IR/ME at FTE or even more at L3 is peanuts to you, or your family. Then by all means go spend it.
But if it’s hard earned or borrowed money I’d rather spend £20,000 an go with SFC.

To think you’ll get something by going to FTE or L3 over somewhere cheaper could leave you disappointed with a feeling of being short changed should hold pools be full.

I don’t like the term ‘placed’.
No FTO ever places a student.
They can recommend someone, but it all comes down to you.
You never get your best deal by recommendations.
Get used to finding your own jobs.
It’s a fickle business.

gfunc

Thanks, that's good to know

button push ignored

It's money that I earned working hard over years and the help of my family. And 50K is never peanuts. Especially to me.

I know these FTOs won't "place" me. But still, having recommendations is already a big advantage, that's why I'm heading for the "top" schools.

Things change month by month, if not week by week. You can not predict what the situation will be upon graduation. Whilst the overall outlook is good, a short downturn is overdue.
You have decided on a top school. I hope your timing is good, and you have great success. If your timing is a little off you may have to buy a type rating. I hope you haven’t spent all your hard earned money, as you may need more.
Remember at (f)ATPL is just a CPL/IR/ME, and is not the be all and end all.

Thanks man ;)

I'm not sure I get what you meant in 'Remember at (f)ATPL is just a CPL/IR/ME, and is not the be all and end all.'

Sorry I'm not a native english speaker...

A (f)ATPL has been your goal for many years. You are now getting close. Having been through an awful lot to get to this point, and I commend you.

But as you will find out. It doesn’t end there. In fact it never ends.
There is a constant battle to gain knowledge and proficiency, even if you are lucky enough to find stable employment.
I have a co-pilot for the next two months who is on his sixth airline The previous five all went bust.
That’s like five divorces, bankruptcies, or cancer positives. It’s a very hard career to be successful at, and is based more on luck and timing more than anything.

Oh I get it now. Yes it's what I understood during these last year about this profession. Lots of luck and good timing... I know it's going to be still a long and hard road to get there.

Are you flying corporate or airline?

I was lucky. Being in the right place at the right time, just as a major airline was forming.

I only spent six months as second officer, and three years as first officer. I've been a captain now for over twenty six years.

Luck, pure and simple. For God knows I'm nothing special.
Just ask my wife, she’ll tell you.

I have three children who all have a passion for flying. I'm am trying to figure out the best way forward for them. Hence me being on this web site.

I too looked at the big three schools and at one time or another considered every possible option, up to and including university programs and type ratings.

I visited Dibden Manor and talked to the people involved. Something just didn't seem right, or didn't sit well with me. I got the feeling that it was all a little contrived. Forced and pretentious. Like the feeling you don't belong there. I couldn't wait to leave.

I was forewarned about Oxford by a friend who sent his son there.

And as for FTE Jerez, well I got some e-mails saying that a few slots had just opened up, and if I wanted one, I needed to act fast.

Like I just fell off the turnip truck. I can see through tactics like this, and walk away from the high pressure sales treatment.

All three schools though they were dealing with starry eyed teenagers and their gullible parents, not seasoned airline professionals.

I have now turned my back on the big three and will fund my children's future only at a lower cost school.

If that doesn't lead to a job on an A320 straight away, we'll be perfectly content with something less. So they can gain some experience and learn the craft without have 150 passengers in tow.

I really don't care if slots at premier airlines go to the top students from the big 3 schools. For I don't think this is an ego driven enterprise for us. My only goal is that they become fully competent crew members before they ever enter a cockpit.

If you read my recent post in ‘Interviews, Jobs and Sponcerships ‘ under Jet2.com - transition.
You will see my journey from an aircraft engineering apprentice to becoming a major airline Captain.
It was one hell of a battle.
I was just trying to encourage a young engineer, and was not written to brag on myself.
For I ticked the [no publicity] box in both ‘The Pools’ and ‘Spot the Ball’ competition that I won, along with that Premium Bond win. Thanks Ernie.

I will second what 'Button Push ignored' and 'gfunc' said, L3/CTC practices are shady and I speak from experience.
The AQC used to be a good scheme, now is a farce. There are over 100 people in the pool, they do not email the cadets, pool placement updates anymore. The last one was September if I'm not wrong.
Take your money to FTE I'd say. BCFT Bournemouth is very good, MCC/JOC try Virtual Aviation or even better, Kura's Bestpilot as they are placing people.

Absolutely no problem what so ever.
What I don’t want to happen is, to ever come across as dictatorial in my opinions. Just because I made it to the top, doesn’t make my option any more valid than somebody else’s. In fact I think it makes it less valid, because I’m currently learning today’s enviroment on behalf of the next generation that I council. So don’t take my advice. But do listen to advice from others who have recently done it. I do.

I’m just genuinely passionate about aviation. I have been ever since my aircraft spotting days at Heathrow in the late 60s - early 70s, and I guess I always will be.
Coming from a very middle class background, with minimal basic education. I certainly had the deck stacked against me. I knew my chances were slim at best. But with that came determination and perseverance, the likes the world had never seen before.

By age 23 I had a ATPL and a jet type rating. Both ground and flight engineer certificates. Aircraft dispatchers certificate. And every flight and ground instructors too.
To say I threw myself at it would be an understatement. I had nothing to lose, do or die trying. But it didn’t come easy. Nothing was given to me. Everything was hard.

So when I see people think they can write, oh sorry, their parents write a £120,000 cheque, and that’s just for starters to an organisation, and think that you can just add water. And ‘Hey Presto’, instant airline pilot, it kind of makes me cringe, and then my blood boils.

I have absolutely nothing against any graduate from any school, and I don’t take issue with them. With one minor exception, of when they blab to the newspapers about hard work and dedication. Try being a motorcycle dispatch rider around London, to come up with the money and pass your exams, and we’ll talk about hard work.

The problem as I see it, is the Big 3 have created a caustic environment where the willingness to take on huge debt is blinding the judgement of otherwise rational people. This leads to a secondary problem where B737/A320 F/O jobs don’t pay enough to service the debt with just £1000 pcm pay. There and then hundreds of willing applicants taking on more and more debt to compete. In for a penny, in for two hundred thousand. It works just like a casino. Desperate people bet big, and lose even bigger. You only see the lucky winners holding the big cheque.

All the while decent flight schools go barely noticed. Take BCFT for instance, since it’s been mentioned. A great school, as are many others. They are partnered with Florida Institute of Technology in Melbourne for your PPL and hour building. FIT is one of, if not the finest flight schools in the world. Yet people flood to the Big 3 with wide eyes and pipe dreams instead of looking at ALL the options. Why? Marketing pure and simple. Three words come to mind, hook, line and sinker.

There are a million and one ways to do this. Most have some validity. There is no, one perfect way.
If you take anything from this, and I’m talking parent to parent here. All flying careers should start with a PPL and 150 flying hours. I would recommend a US PPL and an instrument rating from a Pt 141 school as a first step.

Anunaki’s advice of BCFT followed by Kura’s is excellent, and I thank him for that. I didn't know about Kura. See, I don’t know everything.
But I do know a nine grand scam when I see one.