Paying for it
 

Would paying for a first type rating a la Ryanair taint me for the rest of my career?

Various mention has been made of the sense of these schemes and much comment has been made by many from their cosy flight decks of how immoral this is and that any who help perpetuate such schemes are no better than scabs.

To be asked by an airline to stump up the cash for a say 737 rating, to be followed by a job with them (of course no guarantee given) does seem to be taking advantage of the current climate, where others do invest in their pilots and cough up themselves.

What I really seek here is sensible, considered comment on the morals of this practice and whether I will be considered to have 'bought' a job, and perhaps taken away from one who may be more suited, but less flush. Does this practice really only attract those who are not talented enough to get an airline to pay for their type rating, or is it worth considering as a first step into the right hand seat?

We all know that Wanabees are racked with insecurity in the present climate having spent and given up so much to get this far and are searching for the quickest way complete the goal of excercising the priviledges we've worked so hard for, and to get some payback on all the time, energy, not to mention, cash invested thus far.

I hear the bank manager at the door every morning, and he really isn't interested in the why and wherefores of this business - he wants his cash back!

I like many others don't have a job. Recently fATPLed, fairly new to the business and, I admit, naive. However, I feel I must give all the options that are out there serious consideration before dismissing them - however unpalatable some of those options may be to those who are used to how this business used to be. Things have changed. For the better? Definitely not. Will it stay this way? Probably if MOL has anything to say about it. It will make his balance sheet look much better, although if BALPAs latest newsletter is to be believed even when tempered with a little realism it could be an unsustainable stance....

Let me have it!

You have to realize what your potentials are, what your skills are. If you are the same as every other pilot and are able to perform as required in the sim and on line you have nothing to worry about regarding a job. Ryanair isn´t as bad as everyone thinks. As soon as you are in( training and linetraining complete) it is a whole different story. "You are one of us" they say and you are no longer a trainee. I can tell you it´s a completely different attitude. And the better you are in your training and line training the better your carreer will be inside the company. They work after the word of mouth, i.e. if you **** up it is known by others but if you do good it is known by all. If you have a chance to join Ryanair .....go for it.

You read with mindnumbing regularity "Ryan bashing" on Reporting Points about how people are, as you say, "Buying" jobs and undermining the whole fabric of the professional pilots world in terms of working conditions etc.

On the whole, morally, I agree, however the vast majority of these people who are saying this already sit in the right hand seat (with exceptions of course) and therefore can afford to take the moral high ground. I'm not entirely sure what I would do if and when I'm in the position to "buy" my first job.

I would like to think that any airline upon meeting me would think I had the "right stuff" for them and take me on at their cost, but you have to be realistic.

I dont know enough about the internal workings of airlines, how one airline percieves another, how pilots from one interact with pilots from the competition etc... so in essence I dont have an answer for you, but I shall read this thread with interest because more of us than we may think could find ourselves in exactly your position.

One last thought, and I stress this is a generic observation. I have worked in a variety of industries in my chequered career, if the management is poor then when push comes to shove you tend to get no back up, support or guidance because "management" is usually to busy looking after themselves. I read about how management treat pilots on Reporting Points and while there are always three sides to a story I can say to myself "Hmmmm, seen that before".

So at the end of the day I guess you have to go with what YOU think is right, it may or may not be the right thing to do, but at least you will be type rated, getting lots of hours and the bank manager will be a happier person.

Good luck

TBL:confused:

Well first of all - may I say a very reasonable post and very well put across in a balanced manner , thanks for that.

One could argue, that if the alternative is to sit around at home having your fATPL skills go rusty, then yes if you can get your head around it go for it.

Should you need to borrow the money, then I would personally wait for the market place to improve and get caught up in the recruitment process when it starts to move. Airlines are always trying to get ahead of the game so that when they get a "spurt" on they have the crews and the planes to cope straight away.

What inevitably tends to happen is that all the airlines seem to think that they have all available pilots and fATPL's who have applied to them available. Herein lies the problem when the recruitment process does start it does tend to avalanche.

Invariably the basic laws of supply and demand kick in and remuneration improves. Imagine Ryanair wanting to charge people for type ratings in a market place where there are no pilots to hire.

History does repeat itself, whilst nothing as devastating as sept11th has happened before, Civil Aviation is an absolutely MASSIVE International industry which cannot sustain continued depression. Its a shame that looking backwards its a boom and bust recovery process that only inconveniences invariably newly hired pilots and wannabees.

Wait for things to improve, recovery always creeps up on the industry. Don't take the polish of your first flying job because of your impatience. Get it on merit and not because of your borrowing capacity.

PS should your face not fit at ryanair, you will have a type rating with no experience which in some eyes is worse than having no type rating at all.

:)

As I understand it, Ryanair's type rating scheme includes all line training - about 50+ sectors. At the end of that training, you may be offered a full time job. I believe not many haven't been. This is a world apart from a zero-flight-time type rating - you would expect to have 100 or more hours on the 737 at the end of line training.

Also, as I understand it, Ryanair doesn't impose a bond or reduce new recruits' pay for 5 years - as happens in BA, to name but one. In other words, Ryanair takes a different approach to most airlines, but I couldn't honestly say that it's morally less acceptable.

I would strongly suggest that you find out all about this programme from the company before you judge it - and do some research into what it's like to work for this outfit. You'll get some strong opinions on both sides!