Learning to fly in the US
 

Living in the UK where learning to fly is expensive I am looking to obtain a JAA PPL in the US during a holiday/vacation period.

I would love to hear from anyone who has followed this route and would appreciate any advice and the names of appropriate flying schools.

I have achieved solo on a C172 but my flying school has folded! I fly for pleasure (being too old to consider flying as a career!)

Egg,

My opinion,

Aviod Ambassador Airways in Naples, Fla. See my post on this sub...

Beware of go/don't go there recommendations or warnings (and especially emails) from Wannabes- most are recruiters or recidivists.
May sound harsh but one man's meat is another man's poison- you hear opposing opinions about a school- even about the same course!

There are JAA PPL courses advertised in Pilot magazine and, better still, find one from five years ago, to see who's still in business !
Ask for a personal written quote and ensure it explains what you get for your money or not (examples- R/t and night included or not ?)

Before I am accused of bias, just posting to confirm that Flyer magazine serve the same purpose as Pilot.

Did my JAA PPL with UK Flight Training in California. Their website is www.ukft.com . A plus point is that they also have a UK rep you can get hold of to sort things out.

Just come back from doing my FAA IR at Rainbow Air www.rainbowair.com which also gives you the UK IMC rating gratis on your return to the UK.

Any questions then mail me.
No, I dont work for any of them! :D

Julian.

I went to Britannia Flight Centre for my PPL - very positive - check your mail for full story.

And Queery, before you start your paranoid bleating, unlike you I have no axe to grind - not even against your company. I am just a satisfied student. We do exist, it's about time you got used to it.

Learning to fly in the U.S. is becoming a lot more popular – there are many advantages as compared to learning to fly here in the U.K. You have to remember there are negative sides to doing so as well, though.

Let’s look at what it’s like in more detail…

COST

This is probably quite high up on anyone’s list who is considering learning to fly…it is very expensive and you will need to be committed to spend that sum of money!

The cost of flying in America is a lot less then it is here, even with the effect on the economy of recent events.

To give you an idea, you would probably expect to pay something in the region of around £6,000 here in the U.K. (although this can vary quite a bit between flight schools). In the U.S., you would probably expect to pay around £3,000, and the price a lot of the schools over there offering JAA PPL’s normally includes accommodation costs for your stay.

The quoted price for flying in the US generally involves the cost of the Skills Test and all ground exams as well. One thing a lot of the American schools do fail to include is the RT (Radiotelephony) exam costs---they don’t generally test you there and this is something you will need to do on your return to the UK.

The type of aircraft you want to train in will also affect how much you pay. If you decide to go for a Piper Warrior, you will probably need to pay something in the region of £3,600 (I think that’s what OFT was charging at the Flight Exhibition at London Heathrow on Saturday). If you decide to fly in something a bit smaller such as a Cessna 152 or a Katana, you should expect to pay around £3,000. In this case, it really just boils down to whether you want to learn in a nice big 4-seater, a low-wing, or a high-wing aircraft. Everyone has their own preferences.

Another cost you will have to fork out is the flights to and from America. Obviously they are at an all-time low at the moment, but if you are looking at going out there perhaps in the summer, the prices can be quite high. If you assume around £300, that should be about right, although don’t quote me on that.

One expense that you will not get in the US, but you will get here in the UK is landing fees. To be honest, I didn’t even know they existed until I returned back to England – you have to pay them at just about every airfield over here. I’m not sure if the no-landing fee rule applies to the whole of the US, but if you stick to Florida, I know that you will need not worry about them.

LOCATION etc.

A lot of the flying schools that offer JAA PPL training are based in Florida, although there are plenty more elsewhere. The key thing to look for is to make sure the flying schools you look at offer JAA PPLs (ie. a European licence) as this is what you will need to fly back in England (unless you decide to stay in America).

By and large, of the schools that I saw over there, they are all very nice. The school premises are all very professional, the grounds are large, and the airports are generally no comparison in size to the ones you will fly at in the UK.

One thing that I personally think the British flying schools are much better at offering is ground school. Although they certainly do offer it over in America, the system is more of a ‘self-study and ask the instructors when you get stuck’ type rather than being taught everything like it is done in the UK.

THE ACTUAL FLYING PART…

Flying is the same wherever you are. What is different is navigating. The US is very big and there is a lot of empty space; the UK is very small and everything is much closer together.

This is where you will be picked up on, on your return to the UK.

Navigating in the US generally involves flying over large expanses of land with very few features below you. Therefore, when navigating, you tend to just ‘point’ the aircraft in the right direction, and then happily fly along for the next 30 minutes without even hearing a soul on the radio. When you do reach something, generally your next airport stop, you can be pretty sure that it is the one you are looking for, since there probably isn’t another one around for 10 miles.

The UK is very different. Features – such as towns, hills, more aerodromes, etc, pop up everywhere, and it can get very confusing for a new pilot to actually know what town/hill/airport he is looking at. Hence your navigation here in England needs to be very much more accurate - you need to be spot-on otherwise you may land at the wrong airport!

The airspace in the UK is busy and you will have to get used to a lot of pilots all appearing to be using the radio at the same time. This is not to say the airspace in the US is sparce, however. Many of the flying schools out there offering European licences tend to be close to the big international airports and so there is a lot of traffic there as well. The bonus in flying in America is that as a PPL pilot, you are not limited to landing at the small, standard airfields, but are in fact allowed to land at the bigger, international airports, which can be very exciting.

SO WHAT’S WRONG WITH LEARNING IN THE U.S.???

When you have finished your PPL training, you have completed your Skills Test and are now the proud holder of a PPL Pass certificate, you may think that you can buzz off back to England and get stuck in straight away. Not quite. Firstly, you will need to get your RT Practical exam out of the way. This may require some extra training on your part, since there are subtle differences in the British and American usage of RT. The Americans generally tend to be a lot slacker…using non ICAO phrases etc, and you will have to try hard not to pick up bad habits.

The RT practical exam can be done at any UK flying school, and will cost you in the region of about £50. Getting hold of the CAA Radiotelephony manual (CAP 413) will ensure that you don’t miss anything out.

The next part is sending your new Skills Test pass certificate, your RT pass sheet, logbook, etc off to the CAA so that they can process your application and give you a nice Private Pilots Licence, which costs something in the region of £143. So can you fly around now??? Probably not. The English flying school you choose will want to see what your flying is like…not only your general handling of the aircraft, but also your navigation. This is what they will pick up on. You will probably need about 5 hours with a British instructor before they let you out on your own.

WEATHER

Lets face it…the weather here in England isn’t exactly on par with Hawaii, but neither is Florida (although it’s certainly a lot closer!). The fine weather in America, specifically Florida, will ensure you get a lot of flying done in a very short space of time. While of great benefit to you, it can also be a drawback. Flying in England wouldn’t be the same without our lovely weather and as a new pilot direct from the States, you will not be prepared for the stuff you get over here. Whilst a PPL will not allow you to fly in choppy winds and 1 mile visibility, you shouldn’t expect calm, clear skies (as if you would anyway) and the bumpy weather may alarm you at first when flying here. Most people do get the illusion that Florida has nice weather all day long, and this isn’t the case. Thunderstorms are always around the corner, cloud layer can also be very low, and haze will always help at reducing the visibility.

WHAT ELSE?

I think I have covered most things (please ask if I haven’t). It’s ultimately up to you on whether to go over to the States or not. I chose to go over there, and haven’t regretted it at all. Remember, it will probably take you close to a year to complete it here, whereas you could get it done in 3 weeks over there.

That’s all for now,

Best regards,

Well, you were warned and, for TAF and other tossers, I don't have, or recommend, any company in aviation. That's your game not mine.

Very good post Jason2k. I would just mention that turbulence varies according to terrain and weather. Florida can be very bumpy at times! Radio is quiet in Florida but in other parts of the US ie: in the vacinity of Los Angeles, it is frantic! The biggest problem coming flying in the UK afterwards is RT and airport circuits to land.

I have been a professional helicopter pilot for a number of years and recently completed my JAA Fixed Wing CPL/IR training with a school in the USA. As mentioned earlier in this thread, naming a school often brings many positive and negative replies, thereby causing more confusion than the reason that the initial topic was opened.
There are many pros and a few cons regarding the US training option. If anyone would like my opinion on USA training and the school I attended, please feel free to email me at:
<[email protected]>
The usual disclaimer applies: I do not work for a flying school or have any vested interest in one, however I don't like seeing young aspiring pilots lose money or be ripped off.

I really appreciate everyone's help. Jason2k - thank you for taking so much time for such a detailed response.

In my situation and having read the responses I have decided that going to the US is probably the best option although I can see that I will need to take further instruction in the UK to properly get to grips with RT and navigation.

As I could probably go to the US at any time I was wondering whether there were any 'bad' periods that should be avoided?

:) :) :)

why should anyone bother to get involved with uk flight training...? its a bit like buying a car from a main dealer..a complete rip off.

Learning to fly in the US is the best move I ever made. GA is great over there, and its not a rip off. I rented a year 2000 Archer 3 yesterday, complete with 2 axis autopilot and IFR approved GPS, and the cost....about 60 GBP per hour wet. Beats the crappy old dogs I rent at home for 100GBP per hour.

When people tell you that the weather is 'perfect' in the states, and you won't learn to handle real weather, then don't believe them. Try flying through the Banning Pass on a hot day on your way to Palm Springs, then you'll experience real turbulence !

I seriously recommend learning in the US, especially California. Here you can experience so much that you'd never experience in the UK, for example high altitude airports, flying over REAL mountains (not the hills we have in the UK!)....Also if you go to some of the schools at Long Beach, you can get your RT exam while you're in the states, so nothing extra to do when you get home.

Don't be worried about the RT / differences in flying between the US and UK. I was lead to believe that 'it was so different'....Not true, if you learn at Long Beach, or somewhere in the LA Basin you can handle anything in the UK, probably including LHR....I'd say its more the other way round, people who learn in the UK cannot handle flying in a busy environment like LA.....

All the best....

Yep, Jason2k has pretty much hit it on the head.

I would add:

Navigation, is indeed different, but has it's own challenges in FL. Those wide open spaces require a different sort of concentration, it's just as easy to end up at the wrong airport if your track is off a couple of degrees. And it may be flat and almost featureless (ideal training for Holland!), but the multiplicity of lakes in Florida can get very confusing!

R/T, is much more formal in Europe, but if you're doing it right in FL the basics are the same: who are you, where are you, and what do you want; speak clearly and without hesitation. I fly from a military field so I had some extra specific bits&pieces to learn, but even so after an hour or so it was no problem.

The things that most caught me out and took time to get used to were the use of VRP's (being used to A:B flight in Florida); filing formal flight plans and interpreting NOTAM abbreviations (having used 1-800-WXBRIEF in the US and having it all read out in English).

Apart from that silly little things like use of primer and pitot heat (never needed in FL), handbrake (most places in FL use tie-downs and don't bother with the handbrake), and having to ask permission to switch off!

For the rest, best flying time in Florida roughly between late Oct-Feb, decent weather, not too hot and less thunder cells. I last flew there in July and had cells every afternoon, sometimes they blew through in an hour or so, sometimes they just hung around. And yes, with all those thermals it can get very bumpy indeed.

Enjoy!

TAFO

Interesting thread - an excellent post Jason2k

CP

Generally agree with that but:
Even if you'd just got your PPL in UK, wouldn't it be expected and prudent that you are checked out and familiarised at a different place?
Don't most JAA PPL packages in the US now include RT?
Although essential to check what is/isn't included in the different 'course' prices advertised, weren't the ones quoted on the high side?

Thanks for some interesting postings about training in the states, in general, folks...

most of you discussed pros/cons re: JAA PPL in the US. what about CPL and beyond? does your advice apply equally here? (can that even be done?)

cheers...

Query, I think most places offer the training for JAA RT but I know of only one place (in CA), that is able to undertake the exams for you - the others you have to sort out your RT exam when you return to the UK.

If anyone knows of any others then it would be intersting to know.

Julian.

With a little research it is perfectly possible to find a full PPL course in the UK for less than the CABAIR'esque £6k mentioned.

Welshool for example will do you a 45hr PPL, all books, manuals, maps, pens, headset hire and insurance for £2,995. Oh and ten nights accomodation in a nice self catering barn conversion 100yds up the road.

There are other schools outside of the SE that offer similar value...

Train in the US if it suits your circumstances - as it does for some. But do not fall into the trap of merely comparing banner prices in adverts in the back of Flyer/Pilot.

You conversion when you come back is going to be in the region of £500. Add the flights and I the cost saving can get marginal. You do not have the extra cost saving that a commercial Wannabe has with further hour building.

I have converted a few Brit US PPL holders in my time who were trying to save a few quid. Apart from enjoying the experience of being in America they never actually saved much. A couple of them had such woeful airmanship and handling skills that there was no way they would have passed a UK Skill Test and thats a simple fact - not a generalisation.

Its a complex decision. A lot depends on personal circumstance. But it is NOT as clear cut as the pro-US training legions have made out.

Good Luck,

WWW

My 'conversion' was an hours dual check with the flying club that I wanted to join.....as it would have been with any new member....so don't believe it when you are told that you are subject to these large conversion charges. And the beauty is I don't need to be checked out in the US when I fly there, as every new pilot at a school is.....

WWW, where did you get your £500 conversion from?

Its either the usual instructors trying to grab some money back from guys who have trained abroad or people who are so naff they would have required some extra hours anyway. :mad: :mad:

I trained in the US and have had two 1 hours checkouts (white waltham & Bournemouth) and they have been very happy for me to take their planes since. It is typical of all the students I have leanred with in the US as well.

Really P1sses me off when instructors talk about US trained pilots being inferior - you should grow up and accept that there is a comparible standard over in the US even if it does take biz away from you - slagging it off will do no good!!!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

If you want to take this any further I can go into detail on the sort of flying I have done in the US but I can bet your bottom dollar (excuse the pun!) than it will blow the b0llocks off what is done in the UK (try Apache Gunships with myself and a mate of mine with Airforce 1! on his solo) and definitely cheaper - your figures are way off the mark - try £4500 for 2x2 flights to the US, momnths accomdation, all exams and 62.5 hours of flying!!!!

If you want to mess about at an untowered airport during your student PPL then fine, I did mine at a full towered, 5 active runway with full commercial traffic including the USAF! I think that when it comes to the nitty gritty someone who trained at a towered AP wil come off better!

I await your response!

Julian.

Calm down Julian.

I specifically did not slag off US trained PPLs. Because that would be ridiculous.

£500 comes from about £200 required by the CAA and RT license. Then £300 for about two and a half hours dual flying, a UK map and club membership.

Ballpark.

I'd look to do 2 flight of 1.25hrs. The first a decent GA workout in the local area, PFL, some airfield joins and a few circuits. The second trip a brief Nav heavy on the RT with a chat to London FIS, MATZ pentration, getting a RIS or RAS then the full lost procedure with a chat to 121.5 to get home after a practice diversion.

I'd be happy to do that on a type other than that upon which the student trained to increase their flexibility with future hiring. And throw in a few extras if they liked like some Radio Nav work. So the time is as much training as checking.

That was usually what I would do for someone joining the club and converting to type at the same time.

Its thorough. An hour checkout might well be fine in the opinion of another instructor. But I am cautious and thorough in these matters.

Cheers,

WWW

Obvious where WWW is coming (and climbing down) from:
'£500 comes from about £200 required by the CAA and RT license. Then £300 for about two and a half hours dual flying, a UK map and club membership'
Wherever you trained, inc. Welschool, wouldn't you have to:
pay for CAA licence,
buy a UK map and
join any club whose facilities you wish to use?
Also, if you have a JAA licence, no 'conversion' is required- it's simply a check ride, as Englishal has pointed out, for anyone new.

My point exactly, so basically the £500 who have to paid by anyone joining WWWs club, not just US trained pilots. The original email is pretty misleading.

One big thing WWW forgot to mention on his costs involved n a UK PPL is landing/approach fees - I have friends of mine absolutely cursing over them during their training! That is gong to push you over the £3k quoted, does this price include VAT by the way?

Thankfully in the US you can do TnGs or shoot the ILS as much as you like - its all FREE!!!!

Julian.