WWW, about time pprune gave you your own slot, as the information you give is some of the best. I think a lot of people were better prepared for the Meadowbank experience due to your posts, myself included.
Cheers

[This message has been edited by turbulence99 (edited 09 April 1999).]

Many thanks to WWW for a very informative thread.

Having been a reader for several months now, content to just read through everyones opinions, I feel that I could contribute to this thread, or at least seek contribution from someone else.

I must admit to not being a fan of the physometric/personality etc etc tests (excuse my ignorance) but I did appreiciate what WWW said in his mail.

I have been to a few aptitude tests with the airlines (since 1993 in fact), admitably I was probably too imature for the early ones and decided to "rest" from doing the recruitment rounds - get that valuble "life experiance"! I recently went to 2 apptiude tests but "failed" again! Maybe I'm just out of practise now?

Now for my point! I sat a personally/physcometric test for my present job (Project manager in a software company) for which they gave me a "print out" of the results. I read these straight after my interview and was plesantly surprised with what I thought was a reasonably accurate result! However, there is a few things I'd like to point out, with my experiance.

1. There was a note at the bottom saying that the test was not to be taken on its own and should be taken in conjunction with an interview. Something you don't get during the airline tests, or at least not in my experiance.

2. On my return to the company for a second interview following the tests. The interviewer asked me what I thought of the results of the test. I was completely honest, I said that I thought they were reasonably acurate when I read them the same day as they were done. But when I came to read them again just before the second interview, a week later, I thought they were awful! The interview commented that she "didn't think they were too good" on first sight but on reflection thought they actually where "good" (for what they wanted).

This brings me back to my orignial point, about being sceptical - I beleive that the "image" the psycometric test gives of a person is dependant on the mood/mind frame of the receiptent of the results (i.e. the recuitment person at company) at the time. Could this in anyway be true?

I assume the airlines do not have time to revisit personality tests and thus has my experiance would mean that I would be unlikely to get past the first stage of airline pilot recuitment, as on first sight I don't fair to well? Or perhaps the mathematical way they are "marked" gives a number and the airlines what you to have a number between 80-90, thus they don't delve into the "context" of your answers? WWW's point about the "lie detector" question:

"I love reading books’ but later say Yes to ‘I prefer to watch an interesting TV documentary on world politics than read a book'"

You should be able to say you love reading books at one point, however, given the choice between the TV and books you really would prefer watching TV. Your not lying with either answer. You just happen to love watching TV more than reading books - it doesn't mean you don't love reading.

Just one final thing - I realise I might have failed the airline tests for other reason besides the personality tests, and maybe I'm just so unsure of the unknown that I worry inadvertanly and end up not giving a true test. I would also say I have a reasonable grasp of Maths, Verbal reasoning, and OK hand-eye co-ordination. (My reasons being a Computer Science degree and a small amount of flying experiance).

I would really appreciate any comments you can give.

Thanks in advance.

It's no wonder you don't pass the tests with spelling like that, your attention to detail is appalling.

everyones = everyone's
physometric = psychometric
appreiciate = appreciate
admitably = admittedly
imature = immature
valuble = valuable
experiance = experience
apptiude = aptitude
personally = personality
plesantly = pleasantly
acurate = accurate
orignial = original
beleive = believe
receiptent = recipient
recuitment = recruitment
inadvertanly = inadvertently

and I'm not even sure whether that's all of them!!


[This message has been edited by flysundun (edited 09 April 1999).]

In reply to your comment flysundun (and thanks for spending the time to correct my spellings I shall jot them down for future reference!):

1. I wasn't aware that I said I could spell. I could question your attention to detail? But I won't! Trait of the modern world :-) spellcheckers - spend so much time using computers I very rarely construct written prose without one.

2. I did not know you had to have perfect written English to contribute to PPRuNe.

On my second point, I think that comments like yours are what stops people from wanting to contribute to this forum. Did your mother not tell you, "if you haven't got anything nice to say then don't say it at all"?

Oh and just a quick point - I have passed several of these tests, spelling is not a requirement. I would also argue that it's my spelling that's appalling not my attention to detail! But then I'd be nit picking wouldn't I?

Oh dear, Calm it down people. That sort of stuff is normally reserved for Rumours and constrained to easyJet and Go baiting each other.

Bumble, you raised some interesting points which I am unfortunatley not qualified to answer, but no doubt WWW will pop in for a response himself shortly. However, flysundun had a valid, if poorly presented, point. A critical aspect to this game is attention to detail, in all its forms. Quite right spelling may not have been an issue in the tests you took, but poor spelling may be a sympton of something else. I remember being told at a Professional Pilots Seminar that one recruiter received so many replies for a job advert that in order to sort them out he was rejecting as many as he could to give himself a manageable number. One of the reasons he gave for rejecting was a spelling error (yep, just one) and also if the stamp on the envelope was not on straight!!. He claimed that this demonstrated a 'lack of attention to detail'. Also, you never know who might read your PPRUNE submission, so its worth looking that bit harder. ;)

However, I am not going to get involved in this slagging match, and I agree it's not constructive to respond to an honestly asked question with a list of 'spolling mistooks' :)

I agree with you that the fear of the unknown can be unsettling. However, don't let it get you down as this can be very destructive. Loads of people fail these tests, and loads that have failed them are flying jets now, so don't let it knock your confidence. I to have a sciences degree, average maths skills and okay'ish hand eye co-ordination. I also have my CPL/IR, Perf A, Frozen ATPL and 251hrs, and will be starting to fly jets for a living very soon (more about this when it firms up). I can also confirm that I've sat these tests you talked about for the RAF and they didn't want me to fly for them either http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Bumble old chap you have made the very common error of confusing psychometric with personality tests. You don't believe the personality tests are accurate and fear you have been rejected on their findings alone. This is highly unlikely. Often the personality tests are merely administered at the first stage for convenience. Their real use lies in the next stage when they are used to direct questioning. This is certainly the way the RAF, BA and AL work.

Don't read too much into the questions. Everyone always feels that they don't want to answer YES/NO but somewhere inbetween or 'depends'. The bias of your answer is all that they are after not the thousands of inferences you may make form the explicit YES or NO reply.

If you are worried by bias or arbitrary decision making then you would be far worse off by eliminating psychometrics and reverting to interviews only. People are far more biased across a desk than any objective testing system. You just cannot help but bring your own prejudice into recruitment selection - trust me I've been on both sides of the desk!

You'll get there in the end I am sure. As an aside, lets all keep it civil over here on Wannabes shall we - there is something of a tradition of showing the 'grown ups' how to behave and I for one would like to maintain that tradition. Happy flying - WWW

OK, OK, I'd had a bad day. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

My point has been put rather more eruditely, thanks DeeTee.

I certainly would be one who would reject an application with any misspelling!

My advice is (and this is meant to be constructive) use a dictionary, spell checking is all well and good but you'll never learn to spell using it. I know my spelling is not perfect, but once upon a time I couldn't spell for torfeee, I like to think that I'm a bit better now.

WWW...it all seems to me that you should just be your simple old self on the day of the tests. The truth will generally rise to the surface in spite of those who may try to hide it.

WWW, I'm not a wannabe, but I've always enjoyed reading your posts and think that you are a very valuable contributor to PPRuNe. Keep up the good work, and best wishes to all of you!