Bit a difference though...

For a start socialists tend to believe in equality, whereas most people just believe in equality of opportunity.

No company that I know of makes an open statement of fact that they only recruit people from private schools even if in reality that is what happens.

However easyJet are known for not taking ab initio modular and pretty much only taking from two flight schools. If they did not recruit low hours at all then that would be a perfectly defensible position but they do...and only from two sources really. Entry to those schools is effectively barred to those who do not have access to property secured finance. Of course a modular flight school costs money too, so that will always be a 'barrier to entry' to an extent but not an unreasonable one because it can be paid for from a variety of different sources whereas CTC can only really be paid for one way for most people which is a way that many can't manage.

In the case of studying to be a doctor or lawyer at undergrad level there are established student loans in place that minimise the risk of unaffordable repayments should employment not be found. Even on a conversion course the costs involved are a lot less and the funding processes most established and secure. This mitigates the financial outlay and therefore the discrimination element is reduced.

Of course a degree of discrimination takes place and is indeed desirable in general as Bealzebub points out. What I am saying is that the airlines who operate the model of just taking from one or two select schools are operating a more extreme form of it than would be considered 'normal' in other industries.

I am not saying this from a point of total ignorance, my father has been a lawyer for 40 years and I have discussed this very point with him. You probably think I am mad for writing all this and of course the likelihood of anything ever changing is very low. However if for whatever reason competition law ever takes a greater interest in the employment area this practice of only recruiting through certain schools could be called into question.

Very unlikely I know but if it ever does change, you read it here first. ;)

I agree not much point in arguing since this is a bit tangential to the thread...

Just to be clear though I am specifically talking about easyJet here because airlines like Ryanair take from a variety of training backgrounds.

Anyone can sit the entry tests to theses schools though? That is open competition, and in no way anti-competitive. There will always be careers that involve huge initial financial outlay. I couldn't afford to pursue karting to a high level as a child due to lack of funds hence I'm not an F1 driver!

Ah yes but I'm not talking about the schools though, there is no legislation to force any school, flight school or otherwise, to take someone if they cannot pay. I am more pointing the figure at the airlines who only take from one or two sources.

I don't want to clog up the thread with this though, it was just an aside thought that I mentioned in a previous post which john then picked up on so I thought I would see how far I could get with it. It is clearly not relevant to people currently trying to enter into the profession so I apologise for diverting the thread.

It seems an odd type of recruitment policy alright, which begs the question why they don't do their selection prior to pilot candidates shelling out all that cash!

Smart guy,

"If my parents are willing to pay Intergrated why should consider modular"

Sorry pal if you ever get to an interview for a cadetship with pilots in the room they will dismiss you rather quick in my opinion. Very immature, You should consider the costs it's not cheap and putting your parents at such a big risk and should not be taken lightly if they're millionaires and can throw money around go Intergrated at CTC get few hundred hours on an A320 then try find a job "At an airline who likes hiring intergrated students" Guess what they're not hiring Plus how many people have gone through CTC have type rating with few hundred flexi hours too, Guess what then you go for a job they're going for the same one! So all in all the experience you gain is at value but consider who you're going up against guys who are typed with more hours etc.

As for Aer lingus hiring guys from FTO without advertising is :mad: talk.
Friend of mine modular student had an interview last time round missed the interview due to work FR who he was only working for a few weeks! (EI changed the interview day and couldn't get the day off..) I've met and talked too few pilots who went modular, EI take modular few from PTC when it was around most them had experience else where like majority of airlines look for an ATPL holder with Mutli crew experience.

Ryanair will always look for external candidates, A story on the FTE merged "Friend of mine graduated, Had an assessment with FR he failed the assessment has no current job and has a loan of 1k a month to pay back" don't be fooled by FTOs if you think you've a better chance of getting a job intergrated your greatly mistaken, Everyone gets THE SAME LICENCES just some people pay way over the odds for them..

To be fair as much as smartguy has wound people up the wrong way on this thread that is a completely legitimate question. If you or your parents genuinely have the money and you have the time then integrated probably is the way to go...

But will Ryanair always look for external candidates? CAE have a vested interest in getting their graduates jobs...

As I said before I have nothing to base this on but my own intuition but now that CAE own OAA I can only see that relationship getting stronger. Of course it does not guarantee anyone graduating from OAA a job with Ryanair but it seems pretty obvious to me that people coming from OAA have a significant advantage over external candidates because CAE know what Ryanair like, the OAA course includes 40hrs in the 737 sim and the careers department have an established connection to the process.

As for everyone getting the same licences well that is of course true but what you are paying for at OAA/CTC is not to get a different licence but all the shiny facilities like the full motion sims, the airline connections and of course the name...value that as you will...

Of course there will always be those unfortunate integrated grads who fail to get anything and then have to face the pain of their training loan.

In essence this is how I see it...

This whole flight training thing is a bit like gambling; you pay more to CTC for the likelihood of winning more in a faster period of time...in all likelihood you will get lucky but there is always a chance you will fail big time. Fail at the final stage or get a six month contract and then nothing and you are back to square one and the loan comes to bite you in the bottom.

If you go modular you might not have to borrow, you have gambled less but to be honest the chances of quick success are lower. You can wait though, and maybe work at other things in the mean time. You might be waiting a long time because opportunities for 250hrs pilots with no MPA time are few and far between. You might get lucky with Aer Lingus or DHL but who knows, you could instruct in Scotland for a while and end up at Loganair for example or you might end up finding IR renewals too expensive and giving up...

Question is smartguy how lucky are you feeling...? ;)

Whichever training route you choose it's all a bit of a lucky dip for anyone not having the luxury of joining an airline sponsorship scheme.

I accompanied my son on visit to CTC on one of their open days in Southampton and we both left there feeling highly sceptical about their work placement ideas. He then visited FTE in Jerez and this resulted in a placement offer. His FTE contract arrived extremely late (just before his start date in fact) but it didn't match what he had been told at interview so on my advice he ditched that idea too.

He went on to complete his training via the modular route and he tells me he is really glad he did it that way. He felt in control of his spend, he surprised himself with his ability to self study and he organised his own training program, which gave him a huge sense of personal satisfaction. Overall he feels he has learnt far more about the industry by doing it the modular way.

Join a bona-fide airline sponsorship scheme if you're able would be my humble advice. Failing that there seems to be no benefit in paying all that extra money to do an integrated course on a half promise of a job at the end of it. I do not accept the assertion that prospective employers discriminate against modular graduates and that is based on the fact that I fly with many good co-pilots from both training backgrounds - the split seems to be about even I'd say!

It obviously varies from airline to airline. It sounds like DHL still have an open and fair recruitment policy in which both are equally likely to succeed in. It is a shame though airlines like easyJet don't see it that way...

Which school did your son do his training at in the end?

Airways Flight Training at Exeter for the CPL/ME/IR and Bournemouth for the MCC, its important to pick an aircraft with an EFIS layout if you can, he chose the 747-400 for his.

I don't have a problem with that either, and for some who can't self study or aren't mature enough to live and organise themselves through training it may also be the only way they can train successfully.

Its the people who put the entire family's capital on the line which unless they are on a tagged scheme is both worrying and extremely risky.

I have heard very good things about Airways, definitely in the top modular schools.

Just something else to add to this debate as I said in the my first post a few pages back - on a more practical note when doing my research the modular schools were often a lot easier to approach, you can usually just schedule an informal meeting with the flight school manager or something quite easily. Most will have a rough idea of where their last ten or so graduates have ended up and how successful they have been, this at least gives a sense of how people are getting on. CTC on the other hand were awful at replying to emails and Oxford while good at replying use sales staff as their primary customer interface which could be a bit frustrating sometimes.

Personally after applying, and failing to get onto, a number of mentored schemes I decided that since I have a PPL and being near to completion of modular ATPL theory continuing with modular is probably the best thing for me. Everyone's situation is different...

If someone starting from scratch with average motivation and industry knowledge though came to me for advice I would point them in the direction of CTC...with the obvious risk assessment highlighted...:E

From page one of this thread, posted in 2010. Roughly how much have the prices changed in 2013 money?

2 years! - PPL for £6200, 45hrs
6months - ATPL groundschool fulltime Cabair £2250 + living exp. = £3,200 (good name, would recommend groundschool @ Bournemouth).
5months - Hour building @ £70ph + landing fees etc = £8500 - UK based
3months - Multi CPL/IR at PAT, Bournemouth = £26,000inc exams - (great name, instructors) + living exp.£1,600
1 week - MCC @ European = £1,900 living exp £120

Modular route......priceless!
(Total: £48,170)
under 15months taken out from completing PPL.
200.1 hours total.


I've just turned 30 and just lost my job. I'm considering starting an integrated training route or going back to university to study something (not aviation related) that is equally bad jobwise as pilot training. I want all the facts I can before I make a decision.

EMA747

Similar age to you (28) and considering a career change, I keep coming across the same comments which are more or less; Employers have preference for Integrated candidates over Modular.

I would love to see some statistics!

Modular would be more manageable for me, but it's a no brainer if it really does come down to Integrated=job Modular=no job Is this really the case?

Well I live only a few miles from EMA so I was planning on doing the PPL at the flight school there so that I didn't have to travel to far to each lesson.

The other parts will obviously require a greater level of financial planning. If I took the university option it would mean me having to relocate to another part of the country and with the rental costs, food, tuition fees etc etc I think the total bill would be around the £45-50K mark. In other words not so different to flying via a modular route. Around £30K of the uni costs would be via the standard government loan so would take the sting out of that. Sadly no such option exists for learning to fly so it would require more careful planning.

Actually, you can get government loans for flight training, at certain school they now offer 42k of government funding:

Pilots now eligible for government financial support with Higher Apprenticeship | Pilot Career News

That's interesting and a step in the right direction. It does seem from that article that it wouldn't work for modular though.

Taybird,
If you have any details about gaining access to this funding scheme down a modular route it would be appreciated here also ;)

Why am I not British? Why am I not living in the UK?:ugh::ugh::ugh: