Tweety Pie,a little more detail on your experience,would help us understand your point.I get it that should Cabair remain shut,the consequences could be very hard for some of us,but this sort of "beating down" doesn't help to ease the pain.It's funny that every forum becomes genocide, whatever the subject discussed and I feel that It would be much more constructive when we put our brains together to think on how the students could argue for their rights,would Balpa help the students that are registered as members?(they have a support/advice line,students can sign up for free),should people start contacting banks that they borrowed money from?,ask another schools for advice etc...you know, that sort of advice,instead of,"there,you deserve it you idiot,I was right,you wrong".
Out of experience,I saw the BA cabin crew lose a lot of their rights, committing suicide by eating each other instead of working towards a common goal and I feel that the aviation in Britain is on a spiral dive because WE are a$£%holes to each other.The BA Future pilot programme forum is already in full civil war and those guys don't even have invitations to the interviews yet...your personal vendettas wont take you very far people.
Now,to more serious business,Yesterday the boys doing their CPL/Multi here in Florida were grounded due to the fact that Cabair owns the JAA authorisation from CAA,so is not looking good.Now,I've requested the school to give me the money I had on my account back and I was told that OFT was financially independent from Cabair(well..smell like bs)but the lovely lady at the reception told me that the students would be reimbursed should they go down.
I feel for the integrated guys as I have many friends there and I know that in the "contract of life" there is no clause stating that it should be fair,but you'll have to accept that the damage is done,so I propose to all of you to move on to a reconstruction mode!Think of your contingency plans and what to do next.One suggestion(maybe a little early but,better to pre-empt I think)contact an solicitor and discuss your options,at least you're showing your bank that your chasing the £70K+ they gave you,be proactive!
As far as doom and Gloom,each one to their own!If flying for you is the right hand sit of an A320 Only,then I'm sorry but it will be very hard,fact.Someone posted earlier mentioning that there's no jobs,ah well,there is jobs out there,just not many...I can get 10 airlines recruiting right now just from the top of my head.(BA,Cityflyer,Jet2,Easy,Ryanair,Air France,Wizzair,Qatar*second officer,Cathay*Second officer tho,Tam*-you don't have to speak their language anymore and they take foreigners now,just need to convert your license,which is quite cheap)
But some involve you leaving the country or leaving your comfort zone but again,if you really love it,you do it.
Let's hope for the best:ok:

Pay by Credit Card
 

Possibly a bit late for some people, but when paying large amounts try to use a credit card.
I have reclaimed 1000 GBP when a flying school went down and I had paid on my credit card (although it did take about 2-3 months).

Good luck to everyone in these trouble times at Cabair.

Bright?

Flying stopped, presumably huge debts, many of the instructors visibly looking for new jobs as fast as possible, and a huge dent in their market credibility.

I'm not discounting that they might be saved - I hope for the sake of all the students and instructors that they can be, but bright it is not.

And we all know that customers are usually the last to get their money back when a company folds. Those students who have paid for significant flying up front do not appear in a strong position.

I wish everybody at Cabair very best of luck in saving the company. But, they should be be honest with their students about the risks. Smoke and mirrors helps nobody at such a time.

G

The school gets the advantage of a guarantee that the money is there so can offer discount, the student gets the guarantee that they'll get their money back if the school vanishes (I'd assume no such guarantees if they change their mind).

So, I'd anticipate, since both win, an Escrow cost sitting somewhere between PAYG and up-front.


When Pegasus Aviation (now part of P&M) was developing the CT they used Escrow for early orders, with guaranteed return of the money if the aircraft wasn't delivered within a period of time. This worked really well for everybody - orders were confirmed so Pegasus could borrow against it to fund certification and initial production, whilst customers felt certain they wouldn't lose their money either way.

No reason that couldn't work in flying training.

G

Agreed; if working on the principle that the FTO isn't paying off past fiduciary 'irregularities' with upfront payments!

My meaning behind the peace of mind issue would hopefully involve the CAA - if only to ensure an easier transition to another FTO for as seamless training continuity as possible.

And we all know there is a CAA premium for their gold plated service standards.:hmm:

Cabair -what are the facts?
 

Does anyone have any hard information on the Cabair situation at Cranfield, Bournemouth and Wycombe? Are they still operating, are commercial courses still running? Thanks.

The banks will have no interest in the whys or wherefores. You signed the loan agreement not Cabair. All they want is to be paid on time, every month - or you risk serious and long term damage to your credit and risk any assets (house?) you put up as security.

Be under no illusion.

Cranfield: definitely not flying.

Wycombe: I have no definite information, but it has always been run as a separate business, and Cabair own I think 51% of it, not all of it - so if I expected anything to absolutely survive, it would be WAC.

G

Thanks. Does anyone know how this will impact the JV with FlyBe at Exeter?

Bad news if Cabair is going down.

Strangely I was at SFT almost exactly 10 years ago when it closed it's doors. Lots of words then about rescues and people getting their money back but it all came to nothing. The threads posted then in pprune almost exactly mirror those being posted today. Nothing, it appears has changed.

Good luck.

The silence from Crawley is deafening. At least the FSA pretends to do something about regulating their charges.

SECOAT / CABAIR
 

We at Falcon Flying Services Biggin Hill lost 300,000 pounds with SECOAT, 33,000 with Civil Air at Biggin
now another 43,000 with Cabair
on top of this Biggin Hill Airport have placed Liens on the aircraft which were leased to Cabair , and demanding tens of thousands of pounds for their release.

No Win situation.

What a crazy world.

Singh, the same thing happened to a few aircraft in Inverness when Highland Flying School went bust. The only thing I remember was that the airport have to prove that the debts must be for that specific aircraft. Only unpaid parking charges, landing fees and fuel can be attributed to the aircraft so you "should" be able to negotiate the price of the release of the planes.

Have they completely shutdown? Their website is still online...

I heard that they had been given a couple of weeks by the banks to get their act together, so presumably they are doing as much as they can.

That was 2 weeks ago, we should find out whats going to happen this week.

Wycome Air Centre is definitely run as a separate entity and was never a "Cabair School of Flying". I think the rest of Cabair were trying to use WAC as a model for how things should be done.

I think the issues at Cabair generally came about because the new investors have spent the majority of the last 12 months arguing between themselves and not in keeping an eye on where the business was going.

Problems will always come about when people invest in aviation companies without having a real idea about the business.

After I spoke with an exisiting instructor I believe it may be wise for a few facts to be pondered: (This info is secondhand, so if untrue I stand corrected)

End-of-year accounts for 31/12/2010 not (yet) filed with Companies House.
Fixed assets 2008: £ 900k
Fixed assets 2009: £ 500k

Cabair College of Air Training Instructors not paid for September!!!!!

Cranfield Airport Limited closed credit line for fuel!!!! (i.e. long overdue)
A few more outstanding debts too.

Would you 'restructure' by closing a facility for 2 weeks, suspend pay and send students home?

Said instructor is actively seeking another job!!!!

I wish staff and students all the best. An ex-CCAT bod.:{

What happen with epta?
 

We gonna to know what will happen with epta in eghh?

Fuel at EGTC is exclusively supplied by a company called AKA who operate a strict 7 day payment policy and have done for at-least the last couple of years.

There is no such beast as Cranfield Airport Limited - it's all owned and run by the University. AKA have an exclusive licence from Cranfield University to supply fuel on site.

G