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I just want to add my two cents to this.

Having went through an aircraft engineering course in 2005, Ive seen the aircraft industry becoming more and more difficult to acquire viable employment.

I have contacted CAA and had a nice long talk with Tony Clifford and Eddie Russell and have decided to go forward with the training commencing in november 2008. Of course I asked about the future employment of ex-trainees and yes, they do say they are able to place trained hopefulls into airlines. HOWEVER... i am taking this with a grain of salt, considering the industry we are getting ourselves into.

Having that said, I am certainly not one to put too much trust into a shaken industry so Ive decided upon myself to also tack the flight instructors rating onto my training and have already sparked some interest from friends who work within other FTO's, two based in southern California and one based in Texas. I fully realise that this is just words and in no way a guarenteed job but it is interest and it is genuine (I have known these three guys for a few years)

What Im getting at, if you have failed to see, is that one cannot enter into this industry and expect a job coming out of it. It is just like any job in this industry, whether it be a Part 66 apprentice to a pilot with a freshly acquired ATPL.

The only viable way to explicidly guarantee a job coming out of this is if you were initially sponsored with an airline and were rated specifically for the airlines equipment. This is not an option anymore so self sponsorship along with self sponsored type ratings are a big requirement.

Also, CAA do offer a JAA conversion course if one wanted to convert their Transport Canada ATPL to a JAA license. There is a cost to this but one would be very nieve to expect this just handed too them. An FAA conversion is possible and is a lot easier to acquire than a JAA conversion.

A lot of you, including ex-CAA trainees, are putting way too much trust into an INCREDIBLY fragile industry! It is amazing what one can accomplish with some research.

Whew, thank God I heard about this. I was 99% ready to arrange an interview with Caa. I even went so far as to secure my funds for my training. But by chance I mentioned it to a friend of a friend in the aviation business who told me to check every potential flight school on pprune. Well it seems to me from this website that there are two very noticeable flight schools that former students are very unhappy with i.e. Caa and PTC. Even if you only believe half of what you hear (which I do), it still gives you a good idea of whats really happening and the level of customer satisfaction. Having done some research for myself, the course that Caa are offering just doesn't add up for me, especially with the exchange rate at the moment. So it looks like I'll be going to Moncton. Thanks for the help everyone!

If you throw enough !!!!! at a wall some of it is bound to stick !

Hi

I am a current student attending Algonquin Flight Centre via CAA ,

I have started my training in Jan 08 and am on my way to a commercial licence with a multi and multi IFR rating , then i plan to complete the flight instructor rating ,

For all you folks doing investigation into what flight school you should attend i will honestly tell you from current first hand experience that there is nothing wrong with Algonquin Flight Centre as a training facility as it aims to train at the highest standards,

As for Canadian Aviation Academy who were pilot recruitment ireland , they have now joined with AFC hence the name change aswell ,

there is nothing wrong with a company changing its name , so stop all the BS rumors of why the company is changing its name .

Doing your training via CAA is very beneficial as they have done nothing but take care of :
Food / Spending Money :
Housing:
Transport:
Sporting Activities:
Gym :
Uniforms:
etc etc etc:

When you do your training via CAA believe me they basically make your transition here to canada / north bay very much hassle free .. and i would not regret for one minute coming here to do my training .

This company is holding well on its feet and i would be proud to say that ive trained here via this company as the instructors know what there talking about in relation to any portion of the training , air or ground ...

Of course there may have been some unsatisfied students in the past who are currently on here making up some of the most profound crap ...
No matter where you go you will encounter some forum of small problems very easily resolvable ,

The staff on board here work day in and out to provide the best they can for each attending student and so far with the current students attending the professional pilot programme there seems to be satisfaction all around,

As for the aircraft for that the students train in just to clarify in case of any confusion :

C152 x3
C172 x2
PA30 x1

For living in North Bay if anyone is wondering :
Its a nice town with located on the edge of Lake Nippissing about 4 hours north of Toronto : People are very friendly and the price of living here is very reasonable:

As for the job placement of students , The instructors help you all the way through to complete the course and help you achieve your goal of becoming a pilot , When the time is near for you finishing you will have your options presented to you :

Example :
Ramp Jobs
Instructor Rating :........

For any of you who are thinking of the airline transition they really prefer pilots with experience so by doing the instructor rating : you boost your knowledge and become more efficient in the cockpit / flying the plane , very valuable rating ..
It is possible to make a transition to the airlines here as a low time pilot but its not guaranteed .

Anyway i felt from a 1st hand honest student perspective a few things needed clarifying , if would like to PM me feel free ,

Chris:cool:

Quote:

as far as i know a King Air and a Navajo available soon,

Er? For training? :confused:

Hi vti,

Just out of interest you say that you're thinking of getting a job in the U.S.

Unless you have American citizenship or are a very experienced Pilot I wouldn't even waste my time thinking about this - its near enough impossible to get a visa.

Just to let you know incase you we're basing you're decision on this.

zyox

basically its more multi time - experience - type on aircraft - and getting your multi crew checkout ,

over all it helps if u would like to work for the likes of voyager - or medivac flying etc ,

contact CAA or Algonquin for more info or if i hear any updates ill let u know

Winto22, I just have three questions regarding CAA just to put the record straight.
1. There seems to be controversy about how many students CAA have placed into jobs. Can you tell me exactly how many are in fact now working after graduating?
2. As Zyox mentioned, would students gain a King Air and Navajo rating as part of the course, or would they need to pay extra for these?
3. Do you believe that some former students were treated badly or is it just a minority complaining because they weren't committed enough?
I have decided that CAA is not the course for me, however I would be grateful if you could answer these questions and give CAA's side of the story. No one seems to want to answer these questions, which is what made me decide against Caa.
You may private message me if you feel there is something I should know.
Happy flying!
Billy

Hi Billy

Ill be glad to answer the question s

1: I cannot tell you an exact number as CAA have existed since before i came here.
Sorry for being vague but i cant really give a number all i know is that there a great company and i put my full trust in them as they guaranteed me a and im not even graduated yet

2: The King Air and Navajo i dont know all the ins and outs yet as its only a new
development i cannot tell u if the fee is for the training is included , when i find out i can let u know or u can just keep a track of CAA website

3: I dont believe that former students were treated badly and that is my honest opinion it was all related to personal attitude and commitment to the course , ive done enough research into that part to be able to comment on it,

im sorry from a student perspective that you do not feel this is the right school for you as i cannot see anyone coming over here and not enjoying themselves as its fantastic set up hassle free ,
If u would like to PM me feel free and ill be glad to answer an Qs if u like , i have nothing to hide so i dont mind just posting here ill be straight up with u
safe flying happy landings
winto22:cool:

Moncton Suspends JAA Program

Hi, I have been keeping a close watch this forum as i am thinking of taking my training in canada. I noticed that many of ye are moncton fans and thought you should see this. Welcome to Moncton Flight College I also spoke to a mate of mine who was training in moncton and is now home (he did not complete the program) and he said that moncton suspended all flight training on two occasions with no explanation but the rumour was that it was due to safety issues and they closed the school down before transport canada did. i tried to do my research on monctons incident reports and came up with this forum AVCANADA • View topic - Student Pilot clings to life after plane crash
it's a bit older but it seems moncton still has safety issues - two alone in 2006 :eek:. can anyone tell me if caa/afc has had incidents like this? thanks :ok:

Quote:

Im not basing this training on the hope I will get a job in the US, although saying that, they FTO's I have been in communicating with have factored in visa/work permits into the equation as we have discussed this at length (I have lived in the US before and know all about the difficulty in acquiring them)

Getting back to CAA, as I said, I will be taking the instructors rating and, hopefully, start working with the FTO when everything is complete.

BillyMurphy:

I know you have made your mind up about your choice and everything but I just want to add my last cent.

This course is not something you can half ass through and expect to get everything the guy at the top of the class gets. One must really prove themselves and give the full 100% of their abilities in order to get work out of this. I mean, just for a second put yourself in a Cheif Instructors shoes and think, who would want to hire a person who didnt give the best of their abilites, especially if there are other students who have proved themselves license after license after license!

In my own mind, I am resting very easy in the sence that my money is going to a very capable bunch of people who work in an above par FTO in one of the most beautiful countries on the planet and cannot wait to get there this monday :)

I wish you the best in your studies !

-Gordon

Moncton JAA suspension

Thanks for the reply KeithTo but i knew they stopped the JAA program because of lack of instructors. I was just researching the safety incidents because that was the info i was given. is it untrue that moncton has a high level of incidents? is that where you completed your training? if so what did you make of it?

Just out of curiosity why the interest in the CAA thread? you are one of the high posters on this thread and are not a former student of CAA and you have already completed your flight training elsewhere.

Safety at Moncton

The statement below appeared in a previous post.

“he said that moncton suspended all flight training on two occasions with no explanation but the rumour was that it was due to safety issues and they closed the school down before transport canada did.”

There were several incidents over a period of a few days so the CEO decided on a safety stand down where all safety procedures and operational matters would be reviewed with staff and students. This is a process used by flying organizations with a strong safety culture. Transport Canada was not involved.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....

sorry folks,another "disgruntled/disgraced" former student here...i was one of the guys who went to canada with pri/caa with zyox,we were the first students they had (despite the misleading claims of having hundreds of graduates) lads,the place is a joke.the guy who said he rang and spoke to several of the students and they cant all be "plants"..sorry my friend but yes,they can.you have no idea what these people are like.they will literally sit beside you while you speak and bully you into believing your career is over before it begins if you dont tow the party line.as has been mentioned already,there are several things that i cant really mention but suffice to say that the owners of this company are of HIGHLY questionable moral fortitude....politely put.
i had direct dealings with them when it came to testimonials,radio,newspaper etc and let me tell you these guys will ask you to brazenly lie for them.
winto 22 is a plant..you know u are winto.as for ricky1!!!ha ha,avoid this chancer like the plague lads!this lad hasnt flown a plane in over a year and currently hasnt even sat his commercial exams yet he mouths of about instructor rating etc.he has been lying for pri since day 1 but his flying career went down the tubes fairly rapidly.i can tell you hand on heart that these two lads are to be taken with more than a grain of salt.
anywho...theres no navajo or king air!the multi is perennially busted and they operate on a single 152 on a regular basis.im not disgraced or disgruntled,ive moved on with my training but PLEASE for the love of god think twice before handing over your money to these degenerate schemers.
nuff said

I have a good friend who went over with this lot. I've been in contact with a lot of the former students who were over there, so I think I can post here with some accuracy and insight. They says there was basically 3 groups of people in the schools:
1. Messers and boozehounds who had no business going near aircraft (a minority, about 4 or 5 people)
2. Normal, motivated students who were there to work hard and make something of themselves (the vast majority of students)
3. Students who are willing to sing the praises of and plant stories on behalf on Caa, and also run to management telling tales about other students (again, a minority)

Winto22-
I don't accept for a minute that all the former students were not committed. I know of at least 3 who went elsewhere and successfully completed their training. Also, if there was an attitude problem, as you claim, it doesn't say much for the interview process at Caa that so many were allowed into the course.
Next point.

Quote:

Sorry for being vague but i cant really give a number

As you said, your answer was vague. Lets get specific then.
*Have Caa had hundreds of graduates as they are claiming? You don't need to know the exact numbers to answer this, Sir. Please don't dance around the question by repeating your post for the fifth time or telling us again how great you think Caa are.

*Have they put one or more graduates into airline jobs, which you failed to answer?

Yes, AFC have had a few incidents, like any other school. I know that one involved a student and his girlfriend who ended up going off the runway and got stuck in mud after, cough, "swerving to avoid debris on the runway":rolleyes: Incidentally, this student still only hasn't completed the course after 2 years.:D

Vti-
All the best with your new career. You brought up an interesting point though. From whom I've talked to, most decided to enroll with Caa (or Pri Academy at the time) as they were promised jobs, and thats why they paid all the extra money. So you can understand their position since Caa have never secured work for anyone. Also, I would hope you have the wisdom to see things with your own eyes, and I would encourage you to talk to everyone over there to get an even balanced side of the story, then decide for yourself. As you said, take everything with a grain of salt.

CaaLegal-I'd be very sure of my facts before making a post like that. Remember, all the former students in one courtroom giving evidence..:oh: .Perhaps you should arrange an interview with the Matt Cooper show on TodayFM and deal with the allegations head on? Or maybe the former students should arrange it hmmm? That way you can nip all these nasty, unfounded rumours in the bud. After all, you're right and they're wrong. Maybe you would care to comment on the free return flights that were promised to students last year instead of making fantastic claims about James Bond style ISP tracking?

Now, lets stay on the topic which is the Canadian Aviation Academy, instead of rambling on about Moncton.
For the record, everyone I talked to had no problems with Algonquin Flight School, so that side of things you need not worry about. Although its going to be interesting to see how Caa provide new students with a Jaa conversion, when they don't even have a Jaa instructor in AFC. Time will tell.

Another disgruntled ex student....

no offense Pribandit but all the negative comments about Caa have been from past students. Any student who is currently involved is loving the experience. I highly doubt the owners of the company sit beside the students while they were talking on the phone to me. come on guys ... you are gonna have to give me something real here and something that is a problem now then I will arrange another call with current students and see if it backs up.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I just want what is right for me and I am not going to let anyone talk me out of a great thing just because they had a bad experience WAY in the past. Come on Pribandit... you say you were one of their first students I have no choice but to take what you say with a pinch of salt.

Dear Mr. Eddie Russell - C.E.O - Canadian Aviation Academy

I completed the online application exam over 1 year ago on your website for what was P.R.I. at the time. I have absolutely nothing against you or your company CAA / PRI. I am explaining my experience and what I took from our telephone conversation.

Shortly after completing the online exam satisfactorily I received a call from yourself to arrange an interview. When I asked what exams I would need to complete to be accepted Mr Eddie Russell told me I had completed the exam successfully and once he interviewed me I would be accepted on the course.

During the telephone conversation I took notes as I usually do. I had some questions about the training that I wanted to get information on.

When we approached the topic of job prospects I was told about the instructor positions available to the students at PRI and that if I was successful in my first year I would be offered a job instructing.

Then came the topic of year three onwards and employment expectations etc. Mr Russell stated the following to me.
That a senior captain from Air Canada was associated with the school and that former students of PRI were flying for Air Canada.
That some regional and smaller air lines in Canada also had former students from PRI working for them, you specifically mentioned a direct link with Bear Skin airlines and that you had placed pilots there (only found out they existed after a search online) you also mentioned another airline but I can't make out what I wrote in my diary at the time. (writing fast to keep up with phone conversation) im not saying this is untrue but what I was told.
That Air Canada also recruit Pilots from the above mentioned regional carrier/s
That there was also great prospects to work in Africa or Asia and that they had placed a lot of newly qualified low hours pilots in airlines working within Africa.
That the Canadian professional pilots licence was one of the highest standard ATP Licences in the world and would give me eligibility to work in a lot of countries!
That I would have to complete a conversion if I wanted to work in Europe.
It was left open to suggestion as to whether i could work in FAA Land.
It was explained that extra curricular activity was pre paid as part of the course costs which in my view is a good, you live different experiences and get away from exams.
That yes accommodation and food was paid for and some flights home.
That if Canada did not suit me for training they would arrange for me to finish my training in Ireland and transfer my remaining training funds to the new school I would attend.
Based on the what was explained it seemed as though job prospects were very good.

Mr. Russell I personally have nothing against you or your company! I am merely writing here what was explained to me by yourself during a telephone conversation over a year ago. The above I have taken from the notes I made in my diary during our telephone conversation.

If it was you that came up with the concept of the course at what is now CAA then well done to you. The concept in general is very forward thinking and brings some great attributes to the course. It seems like everything has been thought of. Not everyone is good at looking after themselves food wise, money wise and accommodation wise. CAA control all those elements of the course and even have some action planned stress busting trips away paid for also. On the whole it is a unique training experience and has a lot of very unique selling points.

The points you suggested to me was I may work for Air Canada and the job opportunities were abundant. You explained that your company would work to place me in one of those fantastic jobs. May be if you sold the course focusing on its unique selling points that you can guarantee like the trips away, the food, the accommodation the flight home etc all included in the price you might have less negative comments or less disgruntled past students.

If you mention something like placing past students with Air Canada a well known Flag Carrier then it is more than likely going to come back around to haunt you. A short time after our telephone conversation I emailed Air Canada simply asking had they any direct links with training schools from whom they recruited low hours Pilots. The answer was very polite and basically made it very clear that they did not!

Mr Russell, your training approach is very different and has the potential to be fresh and new. Don't promise something you can't live up. No FTO can guarantee a job after training, least of all over a telephone conversation after completing an online exam without seeing my flying ability for real!! May be where PRI CAA have fallen down is by not focusing on the many positives your course has going for it that you can guarantee.

To me there may be some past students here that are not happy and seem to feel let down. I agree that it is impossible to please all your clients all of the time, however, there is seldom smoke without fire. These people obviously put a lot of trust in your company and feel very let down. It reflects badly that this has been allowed to escalate to you posting a legal threat to people who posted on this site. I personally don't see such a post as being completely professional or achieving a lot. It may appear as resorting to bully tactics. If you had not posted (CAA LEGAL) the thread would have been forgotten about by now. It had not received any post in the previous 5 days before you put your comment on there. It may indeed put potential students off attending your FTO.

When a customer has a problem with a service it really is a golden opportunity to win them over for good, simply by reasoning with them and meet a common ground. If that is not possible then parting ways on agreed & fair terms is the best approach. It is also wrong to threaten (CAA LEGAL) "These individuals have been identified through their internet service providers and are being investigated" as already mentioned data protection laws prevent this and if the names were provided you would be leaving yourself & company open to some serious legal risk.

Mr Russell you stated in your original post before you edited that these people would be pursued legally for "Criminal Damage" criminal damage refers to physical damage caused to property or goods. Here is the definition of "Criminal Damage" under Irish Law. http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza31y1991.1.html#zza31y1991s1

Finally I am not a past student of PRI / CAA I did consider going there but with promises of Job offers ect and Air Canada being mentioned I looked into things for myself and decided it would not be in my best interests to attend PRI.

A lot of FTO's publish on their website the number of past students and the date they passed and what airline/company/FTO they work for now. Why don't CAA do this and end a lot of speculation!?Especially the speculation that only 2 completed the fixed wing training!!!! If you had a serious issue with what was being posted in this forum and could back it up, why not contact the pprune administrators and have them investigate it and deal with the situation. They could ask the members posting to back up their claims ad if not the could reprimand or remove the posts and individuals who posted them. This surely would have been a better option than throwing you and your company in negative light with supposed legal actions and heavy handed threats!!!

This post contains both positives and negatives but is in no way intended to cause harm in any way to CAA or PRI. It is simply how I personally interpreted our telephone conversation and the posts I have viewed in this forum. This is my own personal opinion and does not reflect the opinions of others, others may interpret the postings here in a different manner than I have.

Finally Best of luck to you Mr Eddie Russell and your company and to those students who are currently attending CAA! Focus on the positives and the achievable! Stastics of previous students acheivements (if available) posted on the CAA website would soon sort out the truths from rumour and speculation!

These individuals have been identified through their internet service providers and are being investigated by the revelant legal authorities in Ireland and also by their Canadian counterparts. A dossier collating patent falsehoods are being compiled for prosecution.

Dont know about the rest of you disgruntled former students, but I for one am really sh1tting myself!!!

It would actually be good for a case like that to go to court just to make public what a shambles this lot are!!

For all of ye interested in going to CAA/PRI but are now reconsidering after reading this forum you should try this. Its quite obvious that there are some pretty pissed x-students of CAA here that they’ve made a career out of slagging them. Not to undermine what these guys have been through but I wanted to know how things are now. I rang Tony in the Killorglin office and asked him to set up a call with one of the students over there. Since I didn’t know if I wanted to go for fixed wing or rotary he set me up with a call from both. I ended up speaking to a few students in each house since they all live together and they had nothing but glowing reviews for the place. I even asked about the stuff posted here and we had a bit of a laugh about it. I got the real ‘inside scoop’ and I’m told that the students want for nothing and actually were given way more than what they were promised or thought. My point is that all of these guys that I spoke to can’t be ‘planted’ as is said on this forum. Whatever happened before is long since in the past and I just want to do my training where everything else is taken care of for me and its cheaper then what I would get here plus everyone who does their research knows that Canada is the best for pilot training with the weather and seasons. If you don’t want this option then go to the school yourself but I couldn’t be arsed. I’ll be over to Canada in February.

Just look at how many of us are on here telling of the horror stories. Honestly, the most unbelievable things happened over there......not with the flying or anything, it all happened outside of that. Ive said before that Im not going to say what happened on a public forum, but believe me, its not pleasant. As I said in my last post, it would be good if these chancers would take legal action against any of us, because then all the stuff that happened would come out in court. I really would love it to come out because these incidents were very very very very serious.

Anyway, as a lot of people seem to be noticing (at last), there are plenty of plants from the company on this forum. Just look at the posts from this winto bloke......has he answered any questions accurately??? NO, all he does is praise the company as much as possible. Thats what he is paid to do. And thats the exact same as Ricky used to do.

And the argument that some of the former students had the wrong attitude is a completely false statement in my opinion. All of the people I know from the course are now well on their way to finishing in other reputable schools. I for one am completing my FIR at the moment.

Dont be pulled in with the false promises of jobs and false statements. I wish I never wasted any time or money with this crowd.

But if you still insist on handing over your hard earned cash, then best of luck......you'll need it.

CN

Oh and ps..........King Air??? Navajo??? I had a good chuckle at that one. Apparently they are also gona fit 2 CFM engines on the 152 so they can provide a jet orientation course!!!!!!!!:E

Alotaflyin:
I mean no offence here but do you really expect people to believe that you are someone who simply had an interview with Mr. Russell an entire year ago, took notes, decided against going with CAA and kept those notes only to make this extremely lengthy post a WHOLE year later? Someone who decided against going with CAA for the reasons stated in your post most certainly would have posted them at the time it happened a full year ago instead of just signing up on Pprune now (Nov 2008) to post them.

CharlieNicholas
Again, all things that have happened previously. I don’t mean to minimize what you have went through but I’m in regular mail contact with some of the lads over there and the newest fixed wing guys completed their PPL exam in a little less than two months!! The heli guys finished their CPL five months early. Everyone who is there now is happy. The only thing I can figure out is the company fixed its problems. All the lads that are with them now are happy and getting top training.

Oh, and for the record I was not promised a job. I was told to work hard and CAA would help me in any way they could to obtain a job. I was even told that my first job would be entry level (possibly with minimal flying time) and would have to work my way up. I researched this and its pretty standard of the industry.