2:1 Degree and 25 (by one day!)
 

Morning all

I've got a 2:1 degree from Sheffield Uni and a masters from Bristol Uni, which most employers seem to appreciate. As the title suggests I'm also fairly young (how the fairly hurts!). What are the chances of getting picked up pretty quickly (given that I'd be qualified at 26?

Cheers

As good (or as bad) as anyone else's chances.

so you're suggesting that a very good degree has no consequence whatsoever?

What,

I can't speak for the aviation industry in particular, but I think it's true that, in general, each industry respects formal education up to a point, but beyond that point any extra education won't be an advantage.

The exact point obviously varies from industry to industry, but within IT any education up to and including a Batchelors degree will give you higher pay and a higher entry level (until the point where your experience starts to count for more than your education). However, I have, over the years, worked alongside many people with Masters degrees and PhDs who have a similar level of industry experience to me, and have generally been on a similar salary to them, at a similar grade to them, despite their having a higher formal education than me. In other industries a PhD counts for a lot. In some industries, anything above A Levels (or even lower) doesn't count for much.

A look at the minimum education requirements for a selection of airlines should give you a clue where aviation fits into the scale.

FFF
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A current Class 1 medical, CPL/IR and MCC is much more important, as is the right attitude.

The latter possibly even more important.

You don't say what your degree is in. If it is maths/science related then this shall help you in the ATPL exams.

Your degree is a bonus in general terms, but airlines don't really care provided you have THEIR requirements, usually FrATPL/IR and HOURS.

I have recommended on this forum before that a degree is a very good thing to have as a fall-back position. Degrees open doors to jobs should things go pear-shaped. Aviation is a very strange industry and the more back-up plans you have the better. I have used mine more than once.

Smaller airlines might be more interested in your qualifications if you have a skill that is directly related to the running of the airline (engineering, business etc.) You might be more valuable to them if you're prepared to take on additional desk-based responsibilities and have the right skills.

Hufty

IMHO experience is the key word here. I am on a gap year from uni as an analyst/developer for the NHS and will complete my final year of an IT degree in 2005.

The degree is just the first stepping stone - it is kind of like the gateway to the world of work (in IT anyway). I took a year out because I know for a fact it will put me in a better position than other graduates who havent got the experience. I have learned more on my year out than anything I have ever studied in a classroom - the classroom just gets you ready for the industry, when your in the job, thats when the learning really starts.

As for aviation, my guess would be that the number of hours is what mattered and the a/c type etc. As well as the relevant ratings.

Best of luck

Maz

toodle pip all

Flypup, I wasn't suggesting that my geology degree, if placed on a particularly well calibrated airline application scale, would equal a medical, bags of hours, and multiple type ratings. Namely because geologists don't know how to fly commercial jets, unless I missed that module.

What I would like to know is whether my degree and age would be a good springboard compared with somebody without a degree of a similar age, or perhaps even younger. I find it is in almost every other profession.

cheers

What,

All I was trying to say is that when you are applying to airlines is that their primary educational requirements are those that relate to flying.

The next thing that they will look at is your attitude and personality. They will look at you and how you interact with others. This is where the Chief Pilot or Director of Flight Ops will deicide if he could work for 8 hours with you in a closed confined space, sometimes under great pressure and then want to go for a couple of beers with you afterwards.

Holding a good degree and M.Sc. is a sign that you have determination and an ability to absorb complex pieces of information and make some kind of logical sense of them, it won't be overlooked, but will come in 3rd place behind the two above mentioned qualities/qualifications.

I know of one chap who's only other educational qualification is an O level in Woodwork but he now flies very large jet aeroplanes for a long haul operator.

Often there is little logic in airline hiring and trying to make sense of it just gives you a headache.

As I have said elsewhere, always have a back up plan when considering going into commercial aviation training and never expect to have a job waiting for you at the other end of that training. To believe otherwise will only lead to frustation and nasty letters from the bank manager.

Best of luck anyway. :ok:

What,

Ask yourself what your Masters degree gives you which makes you a better pilot than someone without one? The answer, I would guess, is not very much.

A Batchelors degree proves to an employer that you are capable of studying fairly advanced material and applying yourself academically, which is important in terms of getting type ratings (something your employer will hopefully pay for, so they want to be confident you'll pass easilly). A degree in maths or physics is even better, because some of the material can be applied to flying. But all of this is covered, to some extent, by the ATPL written exams anyway, so even the Batchelors doesn't really add very much to your marketability, I wouldn't have thought.

You said: "I find [my degree and age would be a good springboard compared with somebody without a degree of a similar age] in almost every other profession." That is only true where the degree either provides you with extra knowledge or skills which are directly relevant, or where it proves you have other qualities which are directly relevant. The qualities needed to complete a Masters degree, although not to be sneered at, are not relevant to aviation. They will certainly not harm you, but I wouldn't expect them to help you too much either. The same, as I said, is true in the area of IT that I work in - anything beyond a Batchelors will not generally help your career at all, even if it is an IT-related subject.

FFF
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Hey ho

Cheers guys, it's good to know. I know it's been hashed to death, but 25 (by 2 days!) isn't a problem is it, provided I get things moving?

Cheers

At 25 you have more than enough time. You are 10 years younger than I am. Age-wise you have nothing to worry about.
Just make sure your pockets are deep enough ;)

Many of the people who I have met during training have generally been in their early/mid 20's through to their early 40's. There are many people who have started their flying careers in their mid-30's and have achieved relatively high positions in their respective companies.

Best of luck.

I'm sorry, maybe I missed something, but What to do? does not explain at any point what he hopes to be 'picked up quickly' for?

We must assume, as you are on the Wannabes forum for budding pilots, that you'd like to fly, but how? What? In what capacity? Are you looking for sponsorship, or are you speculating about your chances of employment post-training?

Without more information from you about your ambitions and your expectations, it's very difficult to comment on your original post - except to say it's remarkably uninformative yet somewhat boastful!

Scroggs

Story of my life!

Basically I mean picked up by the major carriers post training, and specifically if they give a damn about degree qualifications.

cheers

I'm not sure why so many people seem to think that a maths/ physics degree is so helpful to ATPL exams/flying. (Not just on this thread - seems to be a reasonably widely held belief in my opinion)

I have an engineering degree and the maths/physics involved in that have next to no relevance to me as a pilot (unless airline flying is going to take me very much by surprise:uhoh: ).

Basic maths/physics knowledge is required but I have never applied anything I learned beyond O-level. (The world of Laplace transforms, fourier series, imaginary numbers and generally the type of thing that covers the blackboards in biopics such as 'A beatuiful mind' and that one on Hawking recently are irrelevant to the stick monkey at the front).

As has been mentioned, a degree shows the ability to learn and apply oneself, but so does a frozen ATPL (and if from a non-academic background perhaps even more so).
Airlines have minimum qualification requirements because that is all that is required to do the job. Anything beyond that might be coonsidered a bonus - whether it is a degree or an extra five or six years in the real world dealing with real people:}

I did an aero eng degree, which without wanting to get into a degree argument carries a bit more weight than a Geology degree especially in this type of job. And to be perfectly honest I wish I hadn't bothered. Yes I am fine with some of the ATPL stuff but I would have been just out of school. And I don't think for a minute it will stand me in better stead for a job. And the cash I blew whilst at uni would have been better spent on flying. I guess when I finished school I thought that was the next logical step! Hindsight - what a great thing!!
As everyone says - having a licence is the most important thing.

What,

I think you need to make better use of this forum. I have just read this thread and you dont seem to fully appreciate the process of recruitment by these "Major carriers" you desire to work for, and I have to agree with the comments of scroggs about the way your posts have come across..

Have a good look around the forums, it won't take very much of your time of efffort to work out that your expectations are way off line and that you are heading for some big dissapointment.

If you are 25 now, and you hope to "springboard" to the RHS for lets say BA or Virgin by 26, you have already proved to yourself and everyone here that you need to do more research. I wonder how many guys out there have managed to get from zero to fATPL and the RHS for any carrier regardless of size in 12 months?? You are dreaming pal - no matter how bright you are!!!

Maybe you should consider the sponsered route, but I recon if you go in there with your masters and a bucket load of arrogance, they will just file you.. IMHO..

Try I.T I recon you are much better suited.. Something in sales maybe??

OTB

p.s. please egscuse ani spelinn miztaks but i finissed scoool at o' level an i'm bit fik like..:rolleyes:

I would have thought that by signing up to the forum, and asking people their opinions, he was trying to do that.

I'm not sure how relevant degrees are, personally. I think that on the one hand, you will have matured that much more, compared to when first leaving school. However, if someone wants to fly so much, then they may forego further education because their dream is so strong.

What I think is a more valid point, is whether you harm your chances by not acting as soon as you leave education. Surely someone that has applied for sponsorship, or started their training immediately will be a better prospect than the person who does nothing for a couple of years and then decides that a flying career would be fun. By this I mean those who do *nothing*, so all those who have gotten jobs to pay for flight training, I didn't mean that.

Hey, I have no problem with the query, and I don't care particularly what preconceptions What has - we can deal with those if he lets us know what they are! We just need a little more information if we are to give him useful advice.

If What just wants to show off the fact that he has a degree and a Masters at 25, well, it's a bit daft but job done! If he seriously wants to learn whether his educational achievements will aid him in the task of becoming a professional pilot, perhaps a different style and content of the question would have been more helpful.

Anyway, let's assume that he knows nothing much about becoming a professional pilot - we were all in that boat at one time or other. So, what do his degrees count for in our field?

Essentially, the answer is 'not a lot'! If the old BA sponsorship was around, and currently on the Britannia sponsorship, a degree - any degree - may be helpful, but it is and was a lot less important than aptitude and personality. There is no requirement in commercial aviation for degree-standard knowledge of any subject (and certainly not engineering!), and educational requirements of most employers are usually 5 GCSE's at Grade C or above (to include maths, English and a science) and two A2s in any subject whatsoever. These requirements are very flexible if you are more than a couple of years post-education and have a licence.

In What's case, we must assume (unless he tells us otherwise) that he has no flying experience, and is hoping for some kind of sponsorship. As I know you can all vouch, these are very few and far between - but they do exist. He needs to research Britannia, FlyBe, EasyJet and MyTravel (the CTC-McAlpine scheme) through this forum. However, he should be prepared for the fact that, like the majority of wannabes, he will have to source and pay for his training himself - and that will cost him somewhere between £45,000 and £70,000 depending on which route he takes. It will take around 18 months to two years, and his degrees will be totally irrelevant. And then he has to find a job......

Any further advice will have to wait for more information from What as to his plans and ambitions, and an honest appreciation of what he knows about the subject so far. I have a feeling that he's just dipping a toe in the water of what appears to be an attractive career, and he hasn't yet really thought through what he wants to do with the rest of his life. I wait to be proved wrong.....

Scroggs